Let's talk... MIDI keyboards

[iPlogger]

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- We seem to have lost MIDI control in favor of DAW integration.

I can't agree with this more.

Same here. I thought I was the only one who had this problem. Glad to see others understand. I spent two years looking for a new controller (looking to upgrade from my 20+ year old Korg O1/wfd) but nothing could do what I wanted. I finally realized I needed to increase my budget to a workstation which is fully and easily capable of setting up MIDI channels. Three years later, I am so happy with my choice.

I also have some controllers which I am also extremely pleased with. An M-Audio Oxygen 49 I've had for 5 or 6 years has held up quite well, except for one slider that is always throwing out random numbers. I just no longer assign that slider.

[thecontrolcentre]

What's lacking for me in a lot of new controller keyboards is enough (if any) actual MIDI ports (not USB). My ReMote SL (mk1) has 2 MIDI outs, a Midi Thru, as well as USB. The MkII lost the second Midi Out & Thru connections.

[SJ_Digriz]

The interesting part is that even in most of the ultra expensive Workstation keyboards, the MIDI configuration is now buried in some deep dark secret corner of a untraversable UI. Again, in favor of DAW integration.

Just so no one thinks I'm opposed to DAW integration, that is not the case at all. Using the Arturia with Cubase is awesome. The way Cubase exposes plugin controls is absolute nonsense. But, MIDI routing and filtering is incredible. It's just that when I want to flip on a keyboard and NOT use a damn computer, it seems we have or are in the process of losing that choice.

[BBFG#]

For controller, still love my VMK-188+ the best (which is also why I have two, one for each house). I'm also still very fond of my E-Mu XBoard 61 (of which I also own two). But I'm quite aware that the E-Mu's might 'die' one day (as I had a 25 key version that suddenly lost its pitch bend/mod wheels) and so am consistently shopping for their adequate replacement... which has mostly come down to 'close, but no cigar'.

[SJ_Digriz]

For controller, still love my VMK-188+ the best (which is also why I have two, one for each house). I'm also still very fond of my E-Mu XBoard 61 (of which I also own two). But I'm quite aware that the E-Mu's might 'die' one day (as I had a 25 key version that suddenly lost its pitch bend/mod wheels) and so am consistently shopping for their adequate replacement... which has mostly come down to 'close, but no cigar'.

yeah, the VMK plus is an excellent choice for old school integration. The only thing I really don't like about them is the location of the joy stick. But like anything physical, that can be learned.

[BBFG#]

For controller, still love my VMK-188+ the best (which is also why I have two, one for each house). I'm also still very fond of my E-Mu XBoard 61 (of which I also own two). But I'm quite aware that the E-Mu's might 'die' one day (as I had a 25 key version that suddenly lost its pitch bend/mod wheels) and so am consistently shopping for their adequate replacement... which has mostly come down to 'close, but no cigar'.

yeah, the VMK plus is an excellent choice for old school integration. The only thing I really don't like about them is the location of the joy stick. But like anything physical, that can be learned.

New school as well. USB integration works well, although mapping is manual and save as program, which I know is a turn off for many now. I use it more simply though and things like mod/pitch and volume are mostly auto anyway.

The joystick position isn't hard to get used to and once you do, is the better position, because I can use either hand while playing now, which comes in very handy when using the stick to bring in a second sound.
Something I found that I thought at first was a bug but later a feature is it has an 'off-center' second center place, which depending on the sample you're playing can either be a normal return to center or a 1/8 or 1/4 tone off. Which is fantastic for certain ethnic instruments; although it can be annoying if trying to play quickly during a jam session.

Been considering the SL88 for a travel version for awhile, but the fact that all their boards use the class compliant standard and that Sonar specifically has a problem recognizing a second board of the same make has kept me from taking the leap.
I would also like a 76 key version.
And while we're at it, it would be nice if they were A-C instead of E-G. Seems more like they make them for guitarists than piano players. One of the things I really like about my spouse's M3 is the 73 key C-C range.

[bftucker]

One of the things I really like about my spouse's M3 is the 73 key C-C range.

Just out of curiosity, how is the M3's keybed? I would suppose that the 61 key version has an identical feel.

[JCJR]

I would also like a 76 key version.
And while we're at it, it would be nice if they were A-C instead of E-G. Seems more like they make them for guitarists than piano players. One of the things I really like about my spouse's M3 is the 73 key C-C range.

Yep I suppose different ranges for different needs. I've wondered how much history is involved, vs musical design considerations.

I.E. wurly piano was A-C 64 note, and most later 64 note boards are also A-C. Were some of the later ones copying the wurliy's earlier proven usable key range? Or did wurly and the later ones all just logically decide to knock exactly one octave off each end of an 88?

C-C is the usual 61 note range, but I think I recall some organ manuals F-F. Clavinet was somewhat an odd duck, 60 note F-E.

Are 73 key midi boards E-E because of some higher logic, or are they just following the established pattern of Rhodes 73?

With fewer keys than 88, some players might be concerned for elbow room on the high end.

I was typically concerned with elbow room on the bottom for key bass. 4 string bass guitar is usually lowest note E. Perhaps coincidentally, many pro sound woofers are built to do pretty good down to about 40 Hz, but not very good much lower than 40 Hz.

So long ago when I was doing keybass on such as farfisa combo compact organ with one octave C-C split for key bass (or was it C-B?), there was no choice but to play several semitones below 40 Hz in order to play bass at all, and this was not friendly to some bass amps.

So a short keyboard for live keybass seemed best if the lowest note might be E or F. If you only have a limited number of keys then if the board starts at A or C then it is "wasting" some of the limited keys on pitches too low to be played loud on many otherwise nice bass amps.

Nowadays maybe somewhat better, though modern live gear doesn't typically perform wonderful much below 40 Hz.

When I play keybass with 88 will play occasional notes below E. If not turned up real loud a good speaker can handle it. But I usually try to play most bass notes E or higher. With an 88 its nice to have the extra keys on the bottom. But IMO a short keyboard starting on A or C wastes too many bass keys on notes low enough to strain the speakers.

[ChamomileShark]

I used a Roland U20 for many years - it has a nice key action - until it starts to fail.

I replaced it with a Nektar Panorama 6 which seems to meet my needs - the only thing it should do that it seems to have difficulties with is that for some VSTs it refuses to let me go through the presets using the patch buttons - including some of the ones it says it's compatible with.

[incubus]

I think 499+ is expensive for a midi controller. I think that for that price, it should be flawless. The industry thinks otherwise

We seem to have lost MIDI control in favor of DAW integration

Well, I for one WANT that. But it's a shit-pickle. What does "DAW integration" mean to most? To Nektar, it means relatively tight integration. For some others, not so much.

Again, dream scenario: Quiet/capable keys, integration with many (or all) hosts OR the option to roll your own. Good sliders and panners, and a 16 pad option that does suck ass (most do)

TAKE MY f**king MONEY ALREADY, just do it

[Armagibbon]

Anyone here get to try a vaxmidi? Big ass metal diy midi keys but with some surgical tubing for key action. Feels kinda weird but in a good way...

[SJ_Digriz]

Well, I for one WANT that. But it's a shit-pickle. What does "DAW integration" mean to most? To Nektar, it means relatively tight integration. For some others, not so much.

Unfortunately, I think you either get a pile of plastic or you spend $2->3k.

As I said earlier, I'm not against DAW integration. I have a keyboard for that, but it suffers exactly what you are saying. It is a POS. But, it works. I'm just complaining that none of the low cost things can function as a central MIDI controller if the computer is off (or on for that matter as use the DAW for those functions)

[rod_zero]

IMHO DAW developers should be the ones making their own HW tightly integrated, as Push and Maschine, they are the only ones with the knowledge, resources and able to overcome shortcomings.

HW manufacturers as Novation, Nektar, inMusic should try to make controllers which work for virtual and HW instruments.

[Kevin63101]

Anyone here get to try a vaxmidi? Big ass metal diy midi keys but with some surgical tubing for key action. Feels kinda weird but in a good way...

I really wanted to consider Vaxmidi as an option ... looks great in theory. Just don't have confidence in company dependability to deliver, then service in long haul if needed. Read their forum.

I'm still using a Roland XP60 for playing VST synths because I like velocity curve response and multiple mod pedals. I use other hardware for DAW control or VST parameters.

[incubus]

Well, I for one WANT that. But it's a shit-pickle. What does "DAW integration" mean to most? To Nektar, it means relatively tight integration. For some others, not so much.

Unfortunately, I think you either get a pile of plastic or you spend $2->3k.

As I said earlier, I'm not against DAW integration. I have a keyboard for that, but it suffers exactly what you are saying. It is a POS. But, it works. I'm just complaining that none of the low cost things can function as a central MIDI controller if the computer is off (or on for that matter as use the DAW for those functions)

Let's face it, the whole thing is one amazing money-pit