Too much Bass - Master EQ?

[TomTom79]

Hi Guys,

I work with samples only (programmed beats, real drum samples, soundfont instruments, Synthies,...). The problem I have: always too much bass in the mix. It also makes sense: the Instruments a picked up with a mic quite close when making a sample bank. So it has a lot of bass. How do you solve this problem in a mix: eq-ing the bass of every single instrument or master eq?

I find it quite difficult to eq the bass of every instrument in the right way. I've found nothing about this on y-tube... they always work with quite small amounts of eq-ing also if they use real samples. But for me, it never works like that. I have now cubase, have also protools (so it's not a problem of the DAW

[dark water]

Savagely high pass (150-250hz and upwards) any samples or instruments which don't need any bass until the point where they start sounding a tad thin IN THE MIX, then roll the highpass down a few hz again for them until you're happy.
Essentially anything that isn't a (sampled) kick or a synth / electric bass - or a bassoon / tuba!

Then if you want an overall airy sounding mix, increase the volume or presence of those lighter-sounding instruments/samples until you're satisfied that you've achieved a good balance where a bass sound is not dominating (unless yours is a genre which demands this).
Also, if it is your arrangement as well as your mix, maybe add more sections for lighter sounding instruments (genre requirements notwithstanding).

Sounds pretty straightforward in my reply, but in practice it usually takes a lot of time and experience (and quite a bit of trial/error) for many of us!
Also, test out your mixes on a number of different systems, and make sure your room acoustics/speakers are helping you as much as possible - or remedy these.

[thecontrolcentre]

Yeah. Try cutting the bass on tracks that don't need it, before you start cutting frequencies on the master.

[TomTom79]

Thanks for your replies,

another way which I tried also: I adjust the sound in a masterbus with EQ (after I've alreday adjusted the freq of every channel but still not happy with the result). Then of course instruments become more present that are at the freq. I push in the Master-Bus (normally 2K-14K). When I do this during mixing, I can readjust the level of the instruments which are too present after the master-EQing. When I do this when mastering it's more difficult. But actually my opinion is: make a mix without any master-FXs a good as possible. But there are also some good engineers who use master FXs (I've read).

But it's not made just with cutting freq. <250Hz. The commercial mixes I compare with have a lot frequencies at 4kHz & above.

[dark water]

Thanks for your replies,

another way which I tried also: I adjust the sound in a masterbus with EQ (after I've alreday adjusted the freq of every channel but still not happy with the result). Then of course instruments become more present that are at the freq. I push in the Master-Bus (normally 2K-14K). When I do this during mixing, I can readjust the level of the instruments which are too present after the master-EQing. When I do this when mastering it's more difficult. But actually my opinion is: make a mix without any master-FXs a good as possible. But there are also some good engineers who use master FXs (I've read).

But it's not made just with cutting freq. <250Hz. The commercial mixes I compare with have a lot frequencies at 4kHz & above.

You're welcome.
However you are confused about a number of things, not least the role of mastering compared to mixing, and the use of EQ versus (volume slider) levels for balancing a mix. If you are not getting the results that you want after EQing every channel then why on earth are you EQing everything in the first place? Balance levels first then EQ if a track desperately needs it.
In terns of mastering FX, yes engineers do use some which excel at some specific aspects of mastering, but read Bob Katz's "Mastering Audio" book/pdf if you want to learn more effectively about these and the role of mastering. The FX you already have are more than adequate for fixing problems in a mix (along the lines of what this thread is about).
Ideally if you made the arrangement, you should not have to fix any balance problems in the mix - your arrangement and your volume levels/automation should already avoid most pitfalls.
Finally, in relation to your last paragraph, as I stated previously - promote lighter sounding instruments/arrangements and these will help provide you with an airier sounding mix.
You are preoccupied with FX and particularly EQing when you should be worrying more about your arrangement and non-FXed instrument balance.


Arrangement is king.

(And teach yourself more about mastering vs mixing).

[thecontrolcentre]

Thanks for your replies,

another way which I tried also: I adjust the sound in a masterbus with EQ (after I've alreday adjusted the freq of every channel but still not happy with the result). Then of course instruments become more present that are at the freq. I push in the Master-Bus (normally 2K-14K). When I do this during mixing, I can readjust the level of the instruments which are too present after the master-EQing. When I do this when mastering it's more difficult. But actually my opinion is: make a mix without any master-FXs a good as possible. But there are also some good engineers who use master FXs (I've read).

But it's not made just with cutting freq. <250Hz. The commercial mixes I compare with have a lot frequencies at 4kHz & above.

You're welcome.
However you are confused about a number of things, not least the role of mastering compared to mixing, and the use of EQ versus (volume slider) levels for balancing a mix. If you are not getting the results that you want after EQing every channel then why on earth are you EQing everything in the first place? Balance levels first then EQ if a track desperately needs it.
In terns of mastering FX, yes engineers do use some which excel at some specific aspects of mastering, but read Bob Katz's "Mastering Audio" book/pdf if you want to learn more effectively about these and the role of mastering. The FX you already have are more than adequate for fixing problems in a mix (along the lines of what this thread is about).
Ideally if you made the arrangement, you should not have to fix any balance problems in the mix - your arrangement and your volume levels/automation should already avoid most pitfalls.
Finally, in relation to your last paragraph, as I stated previously - promote lighter sounding instruments/arrangements and these will help provide you with an airier sounding mix.
You are preoccupied with FX and particularly EQing when you should be worrying more about your arrangement and non-FXed instrument balance.


Arrangement is king.

(And teach yourself more about mastering vs mixing).

[AsPeeXXXVIII]

Yeah. Try cutting the bass on tracks that don't need it, before you start cutting frequencies on the master.

This is something I generally do - and in fact, I very rarely cut frequencies on the master bus, if ever. I'd say a high-pass at at least 30Hz on every track is a good idea, so as to cut out the nastiest low-end.

[TomTom79]

Hi,

thanks a lot for your inputs. I know about leveling all the tracks 1st before making any EQing... But I'm making something like house music (from 90s like Chicago, Detroit, New York) mix of real sampled instruments/drums. When I listen commercial tracks, I've the impression, that they can make a balanced track/beat only with the fundamentals like Kick, Snare, HiHat, without any other instruments. My impression is: the art is not just taking higher instruments (in this case more cymbals?) but mixing/EQing them perfectly. Or should I try it with more EQ-ied Reverb?

What do you do, when you've only the fundamentals of the drums & you should make a balanced mix with them, without adding any other high instruments?

When I'm EQing every single channel in the way like I do in the master bus, do I have the same results? I mean it in practice. Of course I know: theoretically yes but practically too? What about phase shift-influences...?

[Rappo Clappo]

Things only sound so good as they are placed in the arrangement. It is the basic concept of mixing. No matter what. As stated before. Obviously what sounds good is a matter of taste. Ironically.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LW07FTJbI

[legendCNCD]

Yeah. Try cutting the bass on tracks that don't need it, before you start cutting frequencies on the master.

This is something I generally do - and in fact, I very rarely cut frequencies on the master bus, if ever. I'd say a high-pass at at least 30Hz on every track is a good idea, so as to cut out the nastiest low-end.

Moro. I'd say avoid highpass if it is not really needed, shelf is enough and you'll get better phase responses out of your tracks.

[sin night]

What do you do, when you've only the fundamentals of the drums & you should make a balanced mix with them, without adding any other high instruments?

Given that I work on my own tracks, the first thing is making/choosing sounds that work well together an writing in a way that sounds don't crash against each other.


The first thing is sound selection/programming and arrangement. If you write try to avoid things crashing/competing against each other, then the mix stage is easier. Decide which are the main features in each range (for example kick and bass in the low-end) and have everything else leave room for them, by playing in other ranges, by playing in other moments if it needs to stand out in that range, or through equalization (first try shelves, then high/low pass... try to keep slopes as gentle as possible, your goal should be removing things without it being too noticeable... but of course don't be afraid of aggressive equalization when needed!).

Say I'm programming a solid/fat synth that is going to play in the low-mid, while a strong kick and bass are under it. I may use two oscillators spaced one octave apart and keep the volume quiet on the the lower one, so you would feel its presence but it doesn't overpower the lowend of the mix.

This is the kind of reasoning in my mind... avoid the issues as much as possible, so mixing is easier.


If we're talking about just the drums, the kick needs a lot of force in the low end (of course!), usually some presence in the midrange (unless it's just a low end boom) and a nice click (something you could ear in the 5kHz range? but it can vary a lot, it's just a number to say that it's not as low as 800Hz) to give definition to the attack (otherwise there's that feeling that the kick has never enough volume, even when there's already too much low end).

The snare/clap for me depends on the context of the song (it's a feature or it's just there to help counting the movements?)... I could either enhance the highs or cut them to focus the sound on a smaller area of the mix, I have no set rule for this element. Anyway, it should not mask too much the click of the kick.

Speaking of the high sounding instruments, the higher range in my tracks is usually occupied by either a music (synth) part or drums such as hi hats or shakers. Only one or two things go can reach the very high frequency (and bring the sparkle), while the others are usually more focused (and they can be even the main feature on the highs!).


Of course, if eq is needed, I'm no shy at using it!


I hope this helps somehow, even though I'm not yet there with my tracks/mixes...

[sin night]

By the way I didn't talk about transient/dynamics management... volume and eq are not the whole story, shaping the waveform envelope (even through saturation/distortion, not just using dynamic processors) can also be important when talking about a balanced mix (but since the thread is about eq, I would avoid the subject).

[Daimonicon]

Thanks for your replies,

another way which I tried also: I adjust the sound in a masterbus with EQ (after I've alreday adjusted the freq of every channel but still not happy with the result). Then of course instruments become more present that are at the freq. I push in the Master-Bus (normally 2K-14K). When I do this during mixing, I can readjust the level of the instruments which are too present after the master-EQing. When I do this when mastering it's more difficult. But actually my opinion is: make a mix without any master-FXs a good as possible. But there are also some good engineers who use master FXs (I've read).

But it's not made just with cutting freq. <250Hz. The commercial mixes I compare with have a lot frequencies at 4kHz & above.

That's one of the sign of an amateur mix. Pro' s do the other way, start with the master buss and drum buss. That way it already sounds better and when it sounds better, individual channels are easier and faster to mix.

[Kinh]

Shit

[Daimonicon]

Shit

Yeah, you really contribute to this thread with useful information.......not.