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abl3 has a built in sine shaper

gentleclockdivider
KVRian
 
685 posts since 21 Mar, 2009, from gent

Postby gentleclockdivider; Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:00 am abl3 has a built in sine shaper

Nice , it seems that the controls are hidden from the gui but are reported to your host .
Nr 10 controls inputs gain to a sine shaper module and nr 11 enables/disables the sine shaper
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Mike Janney
KVRist
 
338 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Postby Mike Janney; Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:57 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

gentleclockdivider wrote:Nice , it seems that the controls are hidden from the gui but are reported to your host .
Nr 10 controls inputs gain to a sine shaper module and nr 11 enables/disables the sine shaper


Hello!
These are not really official parameters and not all hosts show them, so please don't rely on these to have the same function in future versions of ABL3..!

Mike / audiorealism
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se
1wob2many
KVRian
 
504 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby 1wob2many; Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:20 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

FYI They don't show up in Sonar.
Kr3eM
KVRist
 
249 posts since 1 Sep, 2007

Postby Kr3eM; Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:34 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

Mike Janney wrote:These are not really official parameters and not all hosts show them, so please don't rely on these to have the same function in future versions of ABL3..!


They should be included in the GUI according to me.

The day you remove them I won't be updating anymore...just saying.
Mike Janney
KVRist
 
338 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Postby Mike Janney; Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:04 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

Kr3eM wrote:
Mike Janney wrote:These are not really official parameters and not all hosts show them, so please don't rely on these to have the same function in future versions of ABL3..!


They should be included in the GUI according to me.

The day you remove them I won't be updating anymore...just saying.



Why would you want to use a generic built-in distortion rather than use a 3rd party dedicated plug-in which helps develop your own sound? One of the reasons we removed the distortion from ABL2 is because we kept receiving so many tracks sent to us using it and we never considered it a studio quality distortion, definitely not up to par with the emulation engine. We did invest some time in developing an improved distortion but in the end we still thing to be true to the 303 the user should select their own processing chain. I personally prefer outboard analog distortion, it really bring any plug-in to life. If you ever felt a digital emulation is lacking, use outboard!!

That said we got so many mails requesting the ABL2 distortion back and many users loved it apparently so we have been considering adding it back.

I'm glad you like it tho!!
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se
gentleclockdivider
KVRian
 
685 posts since 21 Mar, 2009, from gent

Postby gentleclockdivider; Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:07 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

I really dislike a hard overdriven 303 sound , but a lil bit of gentle sine shaping is nice .
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Kr3eM
KVRist
 
249 posts since 1 Sep, 2007

Postby Kr3eM; Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:50 pm Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

Mike Janney wrote:Why would you want to use a generic built-in distortion rather than use a 3rd party dedicated plug-in which helps develop your own sound?


Remember what this guy did with a generic pencil?
Image
...just saying.

I understand that you probably assume I just blasted that on and set to go, not the case. I won't argue about the emulation quality, but I get the impression you judge it only by comparing your distortion to other emulations in of themselves as how well they are emulated from a developers perspective.

I am however looking at it as yet another means to an end as a producer of sound, here accurate emulation is just that, nothing more...it has its limitations like everything else.

I have an excellent plugin collection to choose from, but still bumping your crappy built-in distortion with 4-12% can make a huge difference in a proper chain when later adding 2nd and 3rd harmonics with VSM-3 as an example, it's more about how you use it and when...the end result is what counts.

Funny enuff, a bunch of generic stuff could easily become nothing but generic. If one profoundly understands that one has a proper foundation to develop a own sound. A skilled chef can make something out of your most common average blend stuff in your kitchen taste like heaven.

Mike Janney wrote: One of the reasons we removed the distortion from ABL2 is because we kept receiving so many tracks sent to us using it and we never considered it a studio quality distortion, definitely not up to par with the emulation engine.


Generic mindsets will make generic stuff with generic things... says more about generic people than generic things.
(If it's because they desire to or just can't develop more is another question.)

Mike Janney wrote:That said we got so many mails requesting the ABL2 distortion back and many users loved it apparently so we have been considering adding it back.

I'm glad you like it tho!!


Perhaps they are to poor or cheap to buy any additional distortion plugins. :D Heck, buy them all a outboard and some hardware distortion units, that should shut'em up should it not?

Well....most likely they are not requesting it because they think it's the best quality distortion they can get hold of, perhaps if you drop all those issues with that context in your narrative you will see why...damn if I know.

I just know I found a good use of it...and who knows, from 40 years from now your ABL2 distortion will be consider legendary and unique like a [insert any legendary vintage distortion hardware here]....

...but just for a laugh, tell me which generic (Win x64 VST2) options I have available to replace your distortion with then, preferably free of course but not limited to....and not to forget, it should sound and behave similair as yours....ohh...cpu consumption is also a factor....

while I'm at it... I also would like a option to set the steps in Random mode...makes no sense why the other two has it but not that one...or should I read the manual?
jbuonacc
KVRist
 
480 posts since 7 May, 2006

Postby jbuonacc; Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:08 pm Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

Mike Janney wrote:... That said we got so many mails requesting the ABL2 distortion back and many users loved it apparently so we have been considering adding it back.


not getting my hopes up, but thanks for listening to us at least. appreciated. as was said, there's just something about it that just felt/sounded "right".


anyway, while you're here...

i noticed a bug a while back that is still in the latest version (VST2, Windows7, Ableton). in the Random screen, when switching to the key of G, it'll always "slip" backwards into F# (the indicator switches automatically to F#, won't stay in the G position for long). i haven't noticed any of the other keys "slipping" like this.
Mike Janney
KVRist
 
338 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Postby Mike Janney; Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:57 pm Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

i noticed a bug a while back that is still in the latest version (VST2, Windows7, Ableton). in the Random screen, when switching to the key of G, it'll always "slip" backwards into F# (the indicator switches automatically to F#, won't stay in the G position for long). i haven't noticed any of the other keys "slipping" like this.


Wow, thanks, I'll look into that.. Is it just a visual bug or does it affect the generated pattern also??
--Mike
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se
1wob2many
KVRian
 
504 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby 1wob2many; Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:26 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

jbuonacc wrote:i noticed a bug a while back that is still in the latest version (VST2, Windows7, Ableton). in the Random screen, when switching to the key of G, it'll always "slip" backwards into F# (the indicator switches automatically to F#, won't stay in the G position for long). i haven't noticed any of the other keys "slipping" like this.


Hi jbuonacc, I'm trying to replicate this (VST2, Windows 7, Sonar Platinum 64 bit) but I'm not getting it yet.

How long are you talking about before it slips?
Kr3eM
KVRist
 
249 posts since 1 Sep, 2007

Postby Kr3eM; Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:48 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

1wob2many wrote:
jbuonacc wrote:i noticed a bug a while back that is still in the latest version (VST2, Windows7, Ableton). in the Random screen, when switching to the key of G, it'll always "slip" backwards into F# (the indicator switches automatically to F#, won't stay in the G position for long). i haven't noticed any of the other keys "slipping" like this.


Hi jbuonacc, I'm trying to replicate this (VST2, Windows 7, Sonar Platinum 64 bit) but I'm not getting it yet.

How long are you talking about before it slips?


I thought that was already fixed, haven't seen that happen for a while, at least not for the latest v3.10 x64 VST2 windows 7 Ableton Live 9.7.3....but then I haven't been using that very active in G position.
jbuonacc
KVRist
 
480 posts since 7 May, 2006

Postby jbuonacc; Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:01 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

Mike Janney wrote:
i noticed a bug a while back that is still in the latest version (VST2, Windows7, Ableton). in the Random screen, when switching to the key of G, it'll always "slip" backwards into F# (the indicator switches automatically to F#, won't stay in the G position for long). i haven't noticed any of the other keys "slipping" like this.


Wow, thanks, I'll look into that.. Is it just a visual bug or does it affect the generated pattern also??
--Mike


not just visual, the whole pattern audibly slips down a half-step.


1wob2many wrote:... I'm trying to replicate this (VST2, Windows 7, Sonar Platinum 64 bit) but I'm not getting it yet.

How long are you talking about before it slips?


just tried hosting it inside NI 'Komplete Kontrol' as well, same thing (most likely the same in Maschine also, i don't have any other hosts besides something like MUX). i did notice that it seems to stay in G until you try adjusting any of the random parameters (NOTE, GATE, SLIDE, ACCENT) or hit "Next Seed". then the whole pattern slips back to F#. easiest way to test is to set the note scale to only using "C" (maybe set the octave range to +/- 1). set the NOTE slider low (doesn't really matter, i guess), GATE to a high setting, and a low SLIDE amount. setting the ROOT selector to different keys (C through B), you can hear it transposing and see that the root note has changed in the STEP edit page (they'll all be note C or whatever you have the ROOT set to).

set it to G, then adjust any of the random parameters or hit "Next Seed" and it will slip back to F#. visually the ROOT selector won't change to F# until you pass the cursor over the ROOT selector, but you can hear it. previously i thought that even just passing the cursor over the ROOT selector would knock it out of G, but now it looks like it doesn't do it until adjusting the random parameters or hitting "Next Seed". it looks like saving the pattern (without touching anything) will save it as G as it should, then reloading you'll be ok.

hope i explained it well enough, let me know if not.
jbuonacc
KVRist
 
480 posts since 7 May, 2006

Postby jbuonacc; Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:03 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

gentleclockdivider wrote:Nice , it seems that the controls are hidden from the gui but are reported to your host .
Nr 10 controls inputs gain to a sine shaper module and nr 11 enables/disables the sine shaper


just checked this in Ableton. they show there as Parameter #11 and #12. haven't tested against ABL2 yet, but so far sounds like a bag of dicks. i only ever used the "triangle" type in ABL2, which seemed like more of a subtle overdrive.


EDIT: testing against ABL2 now. not too bad if you keep it under 15-20%, can get it close to the ABL2 "triangle" but not quite the same. pretty flexible though, i wouldn't mind seeing this added eventually. as much as i fought it, i've come to grips with the fact that ABL3 is missing the distortion of ABL2. i would like the Shuffle setting restored though (if possible), sometimes i sequence ABL3 via ABL2 just for this. sure, the original didn't have it, but it's sooo nice in some situations. actually, i used it most of the time with ABL2.
Last edited by jbuonacc on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
1wob2many
KVRian
 
504 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby 1wob2many; Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:07 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

jbuonacc wrote:hope i explained it well enough


Yes that makes sense.

I followed the steps in Sonar and twiddled and fiddled, but still no slipping - neither visual nor audible. I also gave it a whirl in the free version of MuLab (6.5.43, 64 bit) and still no slipping.

Sorry I was unable to confirm the problem. But I hope Mike is able to identify the source of your problem.
1wob2many
KVRian
 
504 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby 1wob2many; Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:26 am Re: abl3 has a built in sine shaper

Mike Janney wrote:That said we got so many mails requesting the ABL2 distortion back and many users loved it apparently so we have been considering adding it back.


I noticed that distortion was added to the Rack Extension ABL 3.1.1 update released in May.

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