80s Formant Shifting?

[wee_gerri]

Hi all,
I am in the process of building a completely '80s home studio.
Aesthetics are going to be fairly uniform and distinctly 1980s including a DX7, CZ-1000 and Poly-800 and various cosmetically matching effects, mixers, etc..

I do have a Boss VT-1 but, of course, that's a mid '90s machine but I use formant shifting a lot in my music so I was wondering if anyone knew of an '80s hardware effects unit or pitch shifter which incorporates a formant control?

[BertKoor]

Buy a Synclavier and/or a Fairlight.

No idea whether these can shift formants, but they're cool (and labourous) machines. And if anything comes closest, this is it.

[Aloysius]

Eventide Outboard Effects?

[wee_gerri]

@BertKoor
Both are waaayyyy above my price range.
I should've mentioned, I am limited by price.
£500 would be pushing it.
Also, I don't think either have formant shifting, which is a very distinctive effect and what I am looking for, and I am looking for something that works in real-time.

@Aloysius
Don't know much about Eventide Outboard Effects and I'm having difficulty finding much out.
Do you know the year of release and whether it does definitely have formant shifting?

[Aloysius]

Try looking up 'Eventide Harmonizer Hardware' and see if you find anything of interest there.

[wee_gerri]

Hmm.. 'not sure.
The closest thing I can find is the H3000 "Ultra-Harmonizer" Series. I found a user manual but there is no mention of specific formant shifting.

[Gamma-UT]

Composer's Desktop Project: http://www.composersdesktop.com/history.html

But you'll have to port it back to an Atari ST if you're desperate for authenticity.

[wee_gerri]

@Gamma_UT

I can't see any mention of Formant Shifting there either and as an Atari ST owner, I can't see it being possible on that hardware without significant additional hardware or modification.
It was pushing the capabilities of the ST to get a simple real-time flanger effect.

[ghettosynth]

An 80s studio on a budget is something of an oxymoron. It was largely progress over the next few decades that made budget home studios possible. Unfortunately, even the digital stuff from that era is now "vintage" and prices aren't going down for the most part.

I'm not aware of effects that did this in the 80s. That doesn't mean that they don't exist, but, it certainly wasn't a common feature and, consequently, if it does exist it's probably not going to be something that is low budget. If you can't find it in Eventide hardware from the era then there's a good chance that nothing else will have it.

It seems a bit odd to me that you would be focused on an 80s studio and then using that to create music that relies on future technology. Generally when people make period studios they are going for the sound of the period.

[Gamma-UT]

@Gamma_UT

I can't see any mention of Formant Shifting there either and as an Atari ST owner, I can't see it being possible on that hardware without significant additional hardware or modification.
It was pushing the capabilities of the ST to get a simple real-time flanger effect.

Looks like you're sh*t out of luck then unless you're prepared to do a bit more research on things like PSOLA and phase vocoding. Because that was state of the art even in the late 1980s. You're not going to find formant shifting in a box. The best you are going to get is a granular pitch shifter from Eventide and apply a bit of knowledge about the interaction between grain speed and overlap/delay.

Or you can scrap the daft idea of mixing authentic 80s hardware with techniques that, outside specialist research at IRCAM and Stanford, didn't spread until later. BTW, Trevor Wishart developed the original CDP technology to run on an ST so that stuff like Vox-5 (1986 or so) could be done on that hardware - though not in real time.

[nineofkings]

It seems like formant shifting using 80s technology is a bit of a no-go. As an alternative, you could do things like play transposed parts and pitch-shift them up or down the appropriate amount to simulate a formant-shifted part at the correct pitch. If the song is in C major, play the part in E major through a box that shifts the pitch down 4 semitones. Now you have a part in C with lower formants.

[wee_gerri]

@ghettosynth and Gamma_UT
I disagree that it's unreasonable to expect that there may be something within a reasonable price-range from the '80s.
'80s gear is sought after but many machines (like the ones I mention in the original post) are still reasonably priced. Even some reasonable '80s samplers and effects.

When I say I am limited by price, I don't mean that limited.
The fact that I'd be prepared to spend £500 on one effect should say it all but there's limited and there is understandably limited by anyone's standards! For example, most people could, with some saving, probably buy a Golf GTI MK1 but not so many could afford a Ferrari Testarossa!
After all, you can hardly compare the gear I've mentioned (DX7, CZ-1000, Poly-800) to tens of thousands or even over a hundred thousand GBPs worth of sampling gear!
I don't think it's unreasonable for the CMI or Synclavier to be a bit beyond most people's price range.

The Fairlight CMI and Synclavier were mega-bucks by most people's standards even at the time!
I am talking about gear that is not necessarily cheap but is, at least, within reason price wise. If we're talking about samplers, Casio FZ-1 sort of range, for example.
I haven't won the lottery and I did say HOME studio after all..!

I was there in the '80s and there was a lot of really good effects and gear around and not all of it was that expensive.
The Korg DVP-1 is an excellent example.
There were a lot of good effects at the time and there were certainly real time pitch-shifters galore to choose from at varying prices. You wouldn't think that formant shifting would be too much of a stretch and I am sure I've heard examples of it in '80s productions.

There may well have been something. There was a lot of experimentation and a lot of very impressive effects and equipment coming out in the '80s.

I'd say that, by the time the '90s came along, things had started to get a bit over-priced (not to mention, often, simplistic and bland for the price).

I am sure there was an Eventide machine that could pitch-shift while preserving formants but I'm not sure if it could formant shift independently or when it came out.

I'd still like to leave the question open in case somebody knows of something.. maybe something like the Eventide Harmonizers but with formant shifting added or any multi-effects that may have included it.
If not, I suppose I could conceal the VT-1.

[wee_gerri]

@nineofkings
Good suggestion and it would certainly work but I use the VT-1 live and would really like something which, like the VT-1, can work in real-time.