Is the Pittsburgh Modular Lifeforms Foundation 4 Modular Synthesizer good to start modular rack?

[Astralv]

Hey there

I been looking and looking at modular synth. I am not big on creating my own sounds, I am Presets type of person. But There is something intriguing about Modular.

Pittsburgh Modular Lifeforms Foundation 4 Modular Synthesizer is on sale at Sweetwater- is it something that would be good to start my collection with? I have no ideas what prices are good or what modules I need.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LifeformsF4

Thank you.

[Urs]

I don't have this one myself, but it looks like a really good foundation, and the rack has 104 hp of free space to fill. It has everything you'd commonly need for a synth voice. However, its mixers and utilities beg for more sound sources and I'd desperately miss a delay/reverb and a sequencer. While it's a great start, you have to be prepared to fill up the bottom row swiftly. That's what modular does to you. If money is tight, I'd suggest a less expensive start (e.g Moog Mother 32, Intellijel Atlantis) to also add a few fun modules (Rings, Maths, Black Hole DSP)

What it boils down to is, what kind of music do you want to make with it? Do you want to integrate it into an existing setup, or do you want to explore pure modular goodness?

If you could point us to a youtube video or two with performances you like, I'll be happy to recommend a path.

[S950]

I’ll jump in and take the offer since OP didn’t.

I’m also looking to dive into Modular after selling some of my fixed architecture synths.

First, my current gear:

Sub37
MPC5000
DSI Rev2
Juno 106
Various pedals

I’ve looked at some starter systems but I’m getting a 7U 2x104 case and building my own.

I am into drone/noise/ambient/experimental/pads.

I guess my biggest question is if my MPC is a good solution for external sequencing and if so, what’s the best solution to interface with the euro modulars.

Or is something like a Squarp or Elektron box a better idea because the MPC doesn’t seem to be as suited for live jamming.

Is the Mother 32 a good solution for a midi in to CV out to control the rest of the eurorack?

What are some good core modules to consider?

[Urs]

It's Sunday and I'm in a rush, but a couple of thoughts:

I have no idea about the MPC, never had one. The main issue with line level gear is that modular has much higher voltages. You need i/o modules. If you go 7U with Intellijel, they have a couple of 1U i/os. Also good for your pedals. Pedals and Eurorack pair just fine with those little helpers.

Sequencing is one of the things that are highly individual decisions in Eurorack. Typically "lots of features" like the Squarp sound great on paper, and they are certainly great for live gigging with different sets and stuff. However, people usually get into modular for the hands on thing. So you might want to avoid menus and any tedious step editing.

Talking about sequencing, you mention the Mother. It has a sequencer already. I have gotten a lot of delight from having just 1 sequencer and deriving several lines from it, by using S&Hs, Quantizers, Sequential Switches, inverters etc. If you consider MIDI as means to sequence, the one sequencer in Mother might be enough for a start.

I do a lot of things with 7U 104HP myself. I always go for small form factor, if possible.

Damn.. gotta rush... will think more later.

[deastman]

Korg SQ-1 is a great starter sequencer and useful for so many things.

My favorite modular sequencing setup is Make Noise modules: Rene as the main sequencer, paired with two Pressure Points and a Brains module. That offers tremendous versatility.

In fact, while the PB modular is a great starter system, I would much rather go with a Make Noise Shared System. That would be a TREMENDOUS modular that you could spend a lifetime on and not be in any hurry to expand further.

[Urs]

Korg SQ-1 is a great starter sequencer and useful for so many things.

My favorite modular sequencing setup is Make Noise modules: Rene as the main sequencer, paired with two Pressure Points and a Brains module. That offers tremendous versatility.

Indeed, I've got that combo myself and love it. It does however take up a *lot* of HP (80?). I would not recommend either for a limited space system. For a bit more than half of the HP one can get Malekko's Varigate 8+ and Voltage Block (46HP altogether) which I find mindbogglingly easy to program and which can serve sequencing needs for a system twice the size. It's not the same approach and not nearly as interactive as Rene, but boy... they did pack a lot of stuff in there, and it's surprisingly easy to get somewhere.

Nevertheless, I would not necessarily pair the whole lot with a Mother, maybe just one. Or keep sequencing externally, either via CV or MIDI.

However, if MIDI is essential for sequencing (i.e. multiple tracks), I'd drop the Mother and build a system around Yarns. It can drive 4 voices (or fewer + CVs), and it also has a built in oscillator & sequencer if you need it. Yes, it's clumsy to program, but it's a far better MIDI interface than Mother. Pairing Yarns with Voltage Block, Maths and Batumi would be a dream modulation section provided that rhythmic structure (gates & triggers) comes in via MIDI (I don't use MIDI, so I've never thought much about it... I'll go to Modular Grid and try and figure something out)

In fact, while the PB modular is a great starter system, I would much rather go with a Make Noise Shared System. That would be a TREMENDOUS modular that you could spend a lifetime on and not be in any hurry to expand further.

Hehehe, I feel quite the opposite. I never got on with Phonogene, and neglecting it, I find DPO as single V/Oct sound source too limited, and I *always* run out of mixing/routing options. So I'm in the process of figuring out what to replace Phonogene with. I'm probably going to add a lot of Erica Pico series into it, because they compensate for the large HP of some Make Noise stuff, and also they're black (I do care for looks...). I've already experimented with a sample & hold and a sequential switch, which open up a lot of extra possibilities.

I have two of the Vermona racks with 2 or 3 of their attenuator/mixing units in the 1U row. These units are a pure marvel because they have individual attenuated outputs *and* two mixed outs. For me these have become essential to patch into delays and reverbs and forgo a large mixer with aux sends. I've started using Levit8 this way, but haven't had enough time to do anything with it. I'm saying this, because it may be the one ingredient that make things difficult for me in a rack, when I run out of mixing options. The Optomix and ModDemix are just not enough for me. Once I add an extra voice (e.g. STO or Telharmonic) I need more mixing and routing options in the shared system.

For that reason I also love filters with multiple inputs. I always go for the AJH MiniMod (3 inputs, yay!) and the Harvestman Polivoks (2 inputs). Buffered multiples are usually just distributing signals, there are never enough options to combine signals. Hence I like something like Links or, for V/Oct CVs, a precision adder.

It's something that's easily overlooked when starting out, that using simple mults or stacked cables one can't nicely combine CVs to drive oscillator pitch.

As I said... I try to keep HP count low, but at the same time I don't like modules that are too fiddly. E.g. I prefer uVCA + MixMode over Quad VCA because it's the same HP count and I usually waste one channel or two of the Quad VCA for attenutation purpose anyway. But I wouldn't go for anything that packs more VCAs/Attenuators in 12 HP. Levit8 is better than 2 x MixMode, but only works if there's more space for VCAs.

(btw. I'm one who doesn't need many VCAs. I get by with one per voice, as long as everything has enough attenuators)

#---------

Which brings up another question:

To mix inside or not to mix inside. If you need to mix your whole output in the system, there are a lot of options to do that. They do however cost plenty of HP. I build a system around Happy Nerding's PanMix because I can either modulate Pan or Volume. The Volume modulation is particularly useful because it saves another VCA or two. On the downside it has no sends, on the upside it's got six channels in only 16 HP.

If you have an external Mixer anyway, say, a small Mackie or something, you can save a lot of HP. You do lose out on modulated send effects and pan modulation.

For "drone/noise/ambient/experimental/pads" I think you should have at least a good delay, a good reverb and some means to incorporate stomp boxes in the system, and a mixer to combine things.

I think the DubMix is too large for a system this size, and I think you need at least an Aux (or a different routing option, like the Levit8). The Pittsburgh one looks amazing for this but doesn't have any modulation options. It's 8 HP more than the Happy Nerding, which might add enough functionality to it to catch up on Auxes. Really depends on whether or not you want to be able to modulate the mixer.

Hmmm, am I getting carried away? I think I can talk about these things for hours... sorry for that

Gotta go again, will try to figure out a system which is suitable for external sequencing... does the MPC do that, i.e. send three or four different rhythmic sequences of MIDI Notes?

[Urs]

Ok, I had some Sunday fun on Modular Grid.

Here's an attempt to a 7U 104HP system based on Intellijel tiles. It's meant to have its main rhythm/melody sources externally, and most of the final mixing is done externally as well. These two points are important because I omitted a proper mixer, a quantizer and a rhythm generator because of these assumptions.

Link: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/544148




So it's got two voices via MIDI, with Yarns providing Clock from MIDI as well.

Oscillators & Generators:

We have DPO for West Coast fun. You get all sorts of FM, plucks and goodness from this one. We have the new Klavis Twin Wave (which I do not have myself) which will provide for all bread & butter oscillation, including Supersaw (yay!). However, I also sneaked a Dixie 2+ in because it's got octave control and multiple waveform outs. It's the fast and flexible goto for oscillation.

I also added Rings. Rings does great stuff. It can easily become same old same old, but once you modulate it at audio rate, it's a wonderful source for weird soundscapes and noises. Any rack I ever built without Rings was somehow lacking. Only Elements can make up for it, but Elements is huge in HP.

Filters:

Optomix extends the West Coast fun with its Lowpass Gate function. It can be used as a normal mixer, as a lowpass, and it can be pinged for those plucky bongo type sounds. The one thing that this rack doesn't have, but which Optomix loves, is a trigger sequencer. You have to get your pings from MIDI, from Batumi (which also dubs as clock divider) or from Maths. You can also waste a channel from Voltage Block to create gates for Optomix. Note: A Lowpass gate serves as envelope, filter and VCA all at once, and it's especially well suited for percussive sounds. With Optomix we can save an envelope or two, and a small mixer.

Polivioks for character and also because of the 2 inputs I mentioned earlier. Ripples because it's small and does the multi out trick just as well as Polivoks.

Sorry, no 24 dB filter, but that could be fixed easily with a little research.

Modulation:

Batumi is a must in any small system (unless you go Ornament & Crime or some such thing). It's a quad LFO which has multiple outputs at once. With a special firmware upgrade, the middle outputs can go random sample & hold. It's really cool.

Voltage Block. It's your typical step sequencer upside down. You have 8 channels of 16 steps each which you can program in parallel. That is, hold down a button for one step and adjust your 8 voltages for that step. This way you can hear your oscillators and modulations in prallel while you tweak them. From a practical view this is much better than switching from one track to another and adjust all steps for a single track. What's great about Voltage Block is that each sequence can have different length and timing division.

Maths. This is your envelope generator. If you don't know Maths, watch any of the hundreds of videos about it. There are plenty of alternatives, but if you start out you want to start with Maths.

Why not more envelopes? - Because you can patch Voltage Block into the slew rate limiter in the 1U row (or through Maths as a slew limiter) to get another. You can also get slow sawtooths and what not from Batumi and DPO for modulation. You can combine voltages or cross modulate things for all sorts of evolving stuff. You get Maths' Or out.

One alternative for Maths is Intelljel's Quadra. But it isn't the same, not even with the expander, as you can't use it as a slew limiter. It would however give you 4 envelopes and a bit more space, maybe enough for a small function generator.

Effects:

I usually recommend the 4ms DLD, but it was too large. We have the Chronoblob instead, which I don't have, but it is synchronizable.

Audio Damage EOS, again I don't have it, but it's smaller than Erbe Verb, has two algorithms (I think) and does stereo input.

The 1U row has two line level I/Os for inclusion of FX pedals.

Utilities

The 1U row has tiles for noise, sample & hold, mixing, multing and I/O. Doesn't need MIDI because Yarns has MIDI. Doesn't need other I/O because we mix externally anyway.

Doepfer's Switched Mult to do "The Steevio Thing" (check out Mylar Melodies video with similar name). It's good to perform live and switch a few routings. I'm a bit uncertain about it in context of this rack because I use it for triggers mainly.

A Sequential Switch, which is like a clocked change of routings. I use these things to have, say, oscillators play different lines through the course of time. It's a great source for change within a patch.

Links, MixMode, Samara, Unity Mixer: Buffered Routing, Mixing, Attenuation. The Unity Mixer should be cool also to combine, say MIDI Notes and a Voltage Block sequence for transposition. Or a slow Voltage Block sequence to transpose a faster one.

uVCA. Yep, two VCAs would totally be enough for me, because we have a MixMode, Samara and tiles for attenuation.

#---

Bottom Line: Cheap it is not. But man, I would have killed for this system when I started out

[Stollmeister]

Ok, I had some Sunday fun on Modular Grid.

Here's an attempt to a 7U 104HP system based on Intellijel tiles. It's meant to have its main rhythm/melody sources externally, and most of the final mixing is done externally as well. These two points are important because I omitted a proper mixer, a quantizer and a rhythm generator because of these assumptions.

Link: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/544148




So it's got two voices via MIDI, with Yarns providing Clock from MIDI as well.

Oscillators & Generators:

We have DPO for West Coast fun. You get all sorts of FM, plucks and goodness from this one. We have the new Klavis Twin Wave (which I do not have myself) which will provide for all bread & butter oscillation, including Supersaw (yay!). However, I also sneaked a Dixie 2+ in because it's got octave control and multiple waveform outs. It's the fast and flexible goto for oscillation.

I also added Rings. Rings does great stuff. It can easily become same old same old, but once you modulate it at audio rate, it's a wonderful source for weird soundscapes and noises. Any rack I ever built without Rings was somehow lacking. Only Elements can make up for it, but Elements is huge in HP.

Filters:

Optomix extends the West Coast fun with its Lowpass Gate function. It can be used as a normal mixer, as a lowpass, and it can be pinged for those plucky bongo type sounds. The one thing that this rack doesn't have, but which Optomix loves, is a trigger sequencer. You have to get your pings from MIDI, from Batumi (which also dubs as clock divider) or from Maths. You can also waste a channel from Voltage Block to create gates for Optomix. Note: A Lowpass gate serves as envelope, filter and VCA all at once, and it's especially well suited for percussive sounds. With Optomix we can save an envelope or two, and a small mixer.

Polivioks for character and also because of the 2 inputs I mentioned earlier. Ripples because it's small and does the multi out trick just as well as Polivoks.

Sorry, no 24 dB filter, but that could be fixed easily with a little research.

Modulation:

Batumi is a must in any small system (unless you go Ornament & Crime or some such thing). It's a quad LFO which has multiple outputs at once. With a special firmware upgrade, the middle outputs can go random sample & hold. It's really cool.

Voltage Block. It's your typical step sequencer upside down. You have 8 channels of 16 steps each which you can program in parallel. That is, hold down a button for one step and adjust your 8 voltages for that step. This way you can hear your oscillators and modulations in prallel while you tweak them. From a practical view this is much better than switching from one track to another and adjust all steps for a single track. What's great about Voltage Block is that each sequence can have different length and timing division.

Maths. This is your envelope generator. If you don't know Maths, watch any of the hundreds of videos about it. There are plenty of alternatives, but if you start out you want to start with Maths.

Why not more envelopes? - Because you can patch Voltage Block into the slew rate limiter in the 1U row (or through Maths as a slew limiter) to get another. You can also get slow sawtooths and what not from Batumi and DPO for modulation. You can combine voltages or cross modulate things for all sorts of evolving stuff. You get Maths' Or out.

One alternative for Maths is Intelljel's Quadra. But it isn't the same, not even with the expander, as you can't use it as a slew limiter. It would however give you 4 envelopes and a bit more space, maybe enough for a small function generator.

Effects:

I usually recommend the 4ms DLD, but it was too large. We have the Chronoblob instead, which I don't have, but it is synchronizable.

Audio Damage EOS, again I don't have it, but it's smaller than Erbe Verb, has two algorithms (I think) and does stereo input.

The 1U row has two line level I/Os for inclusion of FX pedals.

Utilities

The 1U row has tiles for noise, sample & hold, mixing, multing and I/O. Doesn't need MIDI because Yarns has MIDI. Doesn't need other I/O because we mix externally anyway.

Doepfer's Switched Mult to do "The Steevio Thing" (check out Mylar Melodies video with similar name). It's good to perform live and switch a few routings. I'm a bit uncertain about it in context of this rack because I use it for triggers mainly.

A Sequential Switch, which is like a clocked change of routings. I use these things to have, say, oscillators play different lines through the course of time. It's a great source for change within a patch.

Links, MixMode, Samara, Unity Mixer: Buffered Routing, Mixing, Attenuation. The Unity Mixer should be cool also to combine, say MIDI Notes and a Voltage Block sequence for transposition. Or a slow Voltage Block sequence to transpose a faster one.

uVCA. Yep, two VCAs would totally be enough for me, because we have a MixMode, Samara and tiles for attenuation.

#---

Bottom Line: Cheap it is not. But man, I would have killed for this system when I started out

Cool system! I too would have loved this as a starter system.

One minor thing: I believe Ripples is also a 24db filter.

[Urs]

Oi... see, I said it's fixed easily with a little research

[S950]

Holy shit Urs. Thanks for the incredible detail. I didn’t get a single reply over at Muffs.

Midi sequencing for me isn’t a “must”; it’s just what I know. The MPC has 4 individual midi outs and 2 in. Having the capability to sample is a bonus. So getting those midi outs into the modular is probably a good start for the basis of my rig if I will end up sequencing externally. I don’t mind this and it would save some HP.

I have 8 separate outs on the MPC and have an idea to maybe use it as a virtual tape looper and assign each tape to a separate out and into pedals/modular.

My ideal would be to basically let it run while I dig my hands into the modular/pedals. The only detriment is that I would basically be using it to play pre-made midi sequences as it’s a bit difficult to live jam on it like the
Squarp.

I’m not so into drums at the moment but the MPC works great for playing percussion live or sequenced.

I’m brand new to modular. I’ve held out for as long as I could but I think it’s time to jump in.

Additional question:

Is noise a problem on modular in general? I’m talking about interference/unbalanced outs or power supply noise.

[deastman]

I’m writing from my phone and so t attempt to respond to Urs’ insanely detailed comments.

I’ll just say that yes, interference can be an issue due to the common ground power supply design that Doepfer established. I’ve encountered it a couple of times and had to rearrange modules that eliminate the problem. Overall though, it isn’t something you normally have to worry about.

Oh, and Urs- the obvious replacement for a Phonogene is a Morphagene.

[Urs]

Holy shit Urs. Thanks for the incredible detail. I didn’t get a single reply over at Muffs.

It isn't always easy to give advice because there are so many different use cases and so many ways to achieve them. The best advice someone could give is a often novel based on a novel, i.e. a really long list of requirements which would be answered by a really long list of answers. But then, people who ask for advice often don't really know their requirements, so there's not much advice to be given. And of course, no-one has the time to write books...

Which is why the typical answer is to build their modular step by step and get to know their requirements, get to know the language, and eventually be able to find the solution for themselves.

Midi sequencing for me isn’t a “must”; it’s just what I know. The MPC has 4 individual midi outs and 2 in.

That's cool. So the MPC has 4 actual MIDI out connectors and 2 ins? That bears the question whether or not it can send on more than one channel, say, 2 to 4 tracks through a single MIDI out, each track on its own channel? - Because that would influence the decision as to what kind of MIDI interface to use.

I have 8 separate outs on the MPC and have an idea to maybe use it as a virtual tape looper and assign each tape to a separate out and into pedals/modular.

My ideal would be to basically let it run while I dig my hands into the modular/pedals. The only detriment is that I would basically be using it to play pre-made midi sequences as it’s a bit difficult to live jam on it like the
Squarp.

So, hehe, this would change the system completely. I understand this bit as to use the modular like a giant crazy effects pedal, where the MPC remains to be the main sound source. In that scenario I would cut down on voices (still keep some) and gear more towards things like Clouds which can capture, freeze and mangle sound.

In that scenario you totally don't need a typical beginner system like the Pittsburgh to start with. You really just need to put together a few initial bits and expand on those. It's the total opposite of my personal approach, which is all about creating small, self contained performance tools.

My advice in this scenario can't be a rack, since I have zero experience in using a modular synth as a sound mangling tool for something I'd send through it. I've never done that.

I do have some ideas though. First off, I'd focus on pairing a great delay, a great reverb, a flexible distortion and a filter - and leave some space for a couple more later on. I would then seek ways to route audio through them. So you still need line inputs, maybe a couple more. And then you need live orientated mixers/routers. There are some crazy tools for this which are often quite a bit overlooked. That would be a good question for Muffs... how to send a couple of audio sources through a couple of sound mangling tools live and maybe sequenced as well.

In the end of course you'll want a nice voice and some sequencing in there too. But your advantage is that you can actually start out with a small, dedicated system which is a giant pedal rather than a "pityful voice". A cool live orientated sequencer could still be in there early on. Some MIDI Interfaces such as the new Tubbutec one have MIDI outs as well. So you can actually sequence/transpose the MPC from a hands-on sequencer within the modular, even while the MPC stays master.

And also also, Koma is coming out with their Field Kit FX next April. Which might be the equivalent of the Mother 32 as a starting point for people who wish to mangle.

Come to think about it, check out Make Noise "System Concrete" on Youtube as well for an idea.

[Urs]

Oh, and Urs- the obvious replacement for a Phonogene is a Morphagene.

Of course... but I'm really scared that I won't like it either...

(I will give the Phonogene another shot one day... maybe I just haven't found out how to use it properly)

[S0lo]

Looks like were going to see Urs hanging around in Muff's soon

Interesting that you went for the 1U tools Urs. I never tried those. I always wondered If I could retro-fit those in a P9 doepfer case, in place of that top title bar they have. But I'm utterly lazy for DIY.

We have DPO for West Coast fun. You get all sorts of FM, plucks and goodness from this one. We have the new Klavis Twin Wave (which I do not have myself) which will provide for all bread & butter oscillation, including Supersaw (yay!). However, I also sneaked a Dixie 2+ in because it's got octave control and multiple waveform outs. It's the fast and flexible goto for oscillation.

It makes a big difference having three VCOs instead of two specially that both the Dixie and the twinwave can go LFO rate.

I happen to have the Twinwave that I've tested thoroughly. Being digital, It is remarkably feature packed. but the unique thing about is that it is algorithmic, not wavetable based. So there is all sorts of mangling of the waveforms there which is something you don't usually see. And with 20 algorithms, there is so much to explore in such a small panel. Though I think it would shine more paired with an attenuator because as far as I can recall it doesn't have one.

I do have a DPO too but I'm terribly guilty of under utilizing it . The model 52 vampire is also a good complex VCO option.

[Urs]

Hehehe, I do hang out at Muffs quite a bit, usually to retrieve information and for links to performances.

After designing this case I went to order Twin Waves and EOS. Very curious about Klavis, it seems pretty inexpensive for what it does. Good tip on the attenuators. I'm actually thinking of getting a few attenuating cables for when I run out of attenuators.

Regarding the 1U tiles, this was one of the questions, S950 said a 7U case, so I assumed either Intellijel or maybe Erthenvar. A quick look at Modulargrid unveils a whole lot of options I'd never seen though. Just yesterday I checked out the demo vid to Just Friends, which is done in a 4U skiff with a tile row I'd never seen before either.

As I wrote, I have the Vermona case which has two tile rows which are incompatible to Intellijel though. So I'm stuck with the Vermona tiles, which I do like a lot, but looks like I don't have much choice to expand.