Missed sales opportunity for most DAWs

[PeterP_swe]

If all the bundled instruments and effects were available as standalone VSTs then it would incentivise people to buy more DAWs.

E.g you may prefer the workflow of Studio One, but if you buy Reason you'd get a package of nice synths or Ableton you'd get some excellent fx plugins.

And the incentive for DAW makers would be that you could potentially convert users what originally bought your DAW just for that new synth you included.

[THE INTRANCER]

If all the bundled instruments and effects were available as standalone VSTs then it would incentivise people to buy more DAWs.

E.g you may prefer the workflow of Studio One, but if you buy Reason you'd get a package of nice synths or Ableton you'd get some excellent fx plugins.

And the incentive for DAW makers would be that you could potentially convert users what originally bought your DAW just for that new synth you included.

Actually, it would do the opposite of what you are suggesting or really not make much difference. If you're using a daw that you are happy with and you find other synths you can use with it from other daws, then really from a companies perspective, it's not going to insensitize people to buy the daw you are developing. If users stop buying the daw itself, development of it will likely suffer, and thus the daw company might as well just develop plugin's. The knock on effect of that is that users don't get a daw they want to stick with, and move to another. It's the exclusivity of the plugin's that a daw provides that makes each daw special and somewhat unique, and able to retain users themselves also. I can see the situation of daw developers chasing there own tails doing what you describe.

I also think that if you are buying a daw because of a synth or effect that's been added without considering the core daw itself in the bigger picture in how it's been developed, is that of being somewhat of an unwise move.

Propellerheads situation with RE's is another cat of worms in regards to VST's that already exist.

[chk071]

Actually, it would do the opposite of what you are suggesting

Indeed. Included instruments and fx are a purchasing incentive. It is not very likely that you would buy several DAW's, just because of their included plugins (after all, they're pretty expensive), it's rather likely that you will choose the one with the most appealing workflow, the best GUI, and the highest quality included content, including the plugins. See it as an added feature, not something which is the reason you buy, in its entireness.

[koolkeys]

Many of the bundled instruments and effects in Sonar were able to be used in other hosts outside of Sonar, and....well....that turned out nicely.

Brent

[lfm]

Been doing that for ten years - only use 3rd party plugins and content - never stock plugins.
So completely free to use any daw - and don't have to relearn any plugins at all swapping daw.
Plugins and content is what shape your sound - not the daw as such.

And free to use daw with workflow and headroom I want - not due to certain plugins.
Daw is just a holder of your audio/midi clips and plugins and some automation abilitites.

Stock plugins is what a vendor use to lock you in to their daw - it's not in their interest they release that to use anywhere. One time sales due to certain plugins is hardly making it a business - since maintenance of plugins is basically none. Money they make is from keeping you upgrading every year.

Even including own products like plugins/instrument in the daw they provide seems like a bad option. I bought Cakewalk Dimension Pro more than ten years ago - and a full version of that was included in Sonar Producer and kept me from upgrading actually - I stayed on Sonar Studio since I already payed for DP.

[Tj Shredder]

Once I got a recording job without owning a DAW. I would have liked ProTools, but it was too expensive, then tried Ardour, which could not comunicate with my interface (no poblem at all today)
I decided to buy Logic, for the reason that I would get on top those nice synths you would never get on their own. That was the main reason.
I did that job and some more, but I always considered Logic being a childs toy compared to ProTools for editing. The waveform display until today an unusable joke...
Still the synths are great, I got on top Mainstage which I can integrate into any set I want.
The others who have exclusive content are Live and Bitwig.
In the end its your workflow which decides. I am back to Ardour and a bit of Bitwig...

[THE INTRANCER]

Stock plugins is what a vendor use to lock you in to their daw

That's a cynical way look at it, and I don't think all daw developers think that way, it's an obvious consequence for which there may be a number of reasons why stock plugin's won't work out side the application. But really, I think stock plugin's are assets that make a daw more desirable to a consumer and to stand out from competing daws on the market, that may not have any/next to nothing worth using at all. Daw developers that provide good stock plugins, are those which show the means in which they can demonstrate the versatility of the programming skills and assets they can provide with a complete daw package.

Consumers expect to get value for money, not an empty box of a product without the meat and potatoes, unless they are deliberately going on a diet. I expect to have meat and potatoes. I don't expect to eat them and enjoy them in another product, 5 to 10 years later as if they were in suspended animation. Transferring songs with plugin's to other daws, for me is a pretty pointless and futile process. The number of variables involved are just too astronomic, and regurgitating old stuff, just isn't progression as a producer in my eyes in any case.

In the past few years, I've developed my own techniques for multitrack/song production, the final result in what comes out is what's most important, the final piece of music itself.

[Guenon]

It's funny how different personal preferences can be in matters like this . For me, the bundled instrument and effect plugins have always been the least interesting thing in a DAW package, and since the turn of the millennium I've chosen to invest in the selection of 3rd party tools I can depend on regardless of the DAW I use. So I can combine them with the varying workflows of these different environments. I go to a DAW for the editing, routing and workflow features, not in-house content. The only exception in all these years has been the Ableton Sampler plugin, I've used it so much in sound design it's easily the number one DAW-specific plugin for me.

[LawrenceF]

Opinions do vary because people do vary, and of course, not everyone with a DAW even uses virtual instruments at all and couldn't care less. Granted, those users do appear to be quite a bit less vocal on the Internet.

But for those who do, sure, good content = more value for the dollar.

[Guenon]

Opinions do vary because people do vary, and of course, not everyone with a DAW even uses virtual instruments at all and couldn't care less.

Exactly !

[rod_zero]

I think the great majority of users use stock plugins, and add some plugins for specific tasks. I have met quite a bunch of people that only use plugins for instruments but not effects.

[db3]

Been doing that for ten years - only use 3rd party plugins and content - never stock plugins

+1 Some stock plugins are excellent, but I don't like getting tied

My preference would be full functionality DAWs with option to forgo stock plugs for a reduced price. As such, I'm more likely to use stock plugs if they were sold standalone.

[sin night]

Exclusive instruments/fx are a selling point for some daw (Logic being the perfect example... Apple even bough Camel Audio to make those products exclusive for Logic); it's not everything you would look for in a daw, but it's important.

The issue is not just that you have to learn some new plugins (and possibly buy them, if you choose third-party) to do the same tasks as before, the biggest part is the patch library you may have built in years of use... samples in daw-exclusive format (hopefully you manage to convert them to another sampler), virtual instruments and fx presets (you'll need to create something similar with new plugins): that's your sound and it may be a lot of work to migrate (and you sound will probably still change).

You also face a similar scenario if a third party company goes under, or if a tool gets discontinued without being replaced by a newer backward compatible product... You'll experience some kind of vendor lock in also when you heavily rely on a certain brand/tool, but at least you're not tied to a specific daw (should you need/wish to change).


I do use stock plugins, but only for tasks that can be done with any stock plugin. Things more characterful are usually done using third party tools, so they could be re-done in other daws without much problems.

[jancivil]

It's funny how different personal preferences can be in matters like this . For me, the bundled instrument and effect plugins have always been the least interesting thing in a DAW package,

I'm that way. It's not about using other DAWS, but I rely on 3rd party instruments and FX completely. It goes back to Cubase SX1, before they started getting so competitive with included plugins. And to this day I don't use their content, except for the EQ "Frequency" which I use on audio regions when I need that. So their 12 GB download is a drag for me as I'm not going to install all this stuff made for the prefab crowd.

[Kinh]

If all the bundled instruments and effects were available as standalone VSTs then it would incentivise people to buy more DAWs.

E.g you may prefer the workflow of Studio One, but if you buy Reason you'd get a package of nice synths or Ableton you'd get some excellent fx plugins.

And the incentive for DAW makers would be that you could potentially convert users what originally bought your DAW just for that new synth you included.

I dont know wha' the ell you on a-bout. and it would help if ya practiced good grammar!