KVR Audio

smd12 · Post by **smd12** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:44 pm

Hey all,

I just wanted some feedback on this mix, positive or negative, please let me know thanks

New version with vocals.

https://soundcloud.com/the_synthetic_aw ... he-trinity

Boone777 · Post by **Boone777** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:56 am

Hello! The guitar is tight and that realy adds to the power of the track however, the tone to me sounds partly Black Sabbath and partly ZZ top at some chords. Black Sabbath could be a good thing if you are going for an old school tone, Electric Funeral is known to be the ancestor of Doom metal as you might have heard but to me in this day an age, a slowish metal track ala Sabbath coupled with a very modern sound ala Swallow the Sun (Plague of the Butterflys) is what sounds like a good Doom metal track. So the tone although I find it's a very good sound, I would go for something more modern, edgy sounding for what I expect to hear in a Doom metal track but that is very personnal nothing wrong with your take on it just a personnal preference.

Can I ask what you used for your guitar sound ?

Some chords remind me of ZZtop sound in Sharp dressed man. Kind of a chorusy effect, maybe that is just due to natural effect of blending multiple takes and I'd like to know how to reproduce this effect myself cause I like it but in a Doom sound it kinda draws me away from the expected dark experience, makes almost want to groove/dance on the sound.

The hihat is maybe what I dislike the most it's very static even I think I heard some phasing in it. The drum in general would need some variations to keep it interesting that's a programmed drum is'nt it ? It's not helping the track IMO it sounds like Nine Inch Nail or some beat box and takes away from the Doom feel.

I like the sounds you did in the background ( some synth or samples ?) I would add some little bits here and there during the song to keep things moving.

And some little production tip that I like a lot in a Doom track is borrowed chords. Going in a different key even just for one chord or two really brings a great/unxepected effect to a track and is typical of Doom song to me, I think your track would benefit from it.

Here are some little suggestions that I think can add a lot to a track even if they are very simple things. It's a Doom band I recently discovered called Ahab, there are very good moments on their album although I do prefer the sound and consistancy of Swallow the sun in general, there are really refreshing moments in their work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-XmmznY45I&t=524s

Ahab: Red Foam at 2 Min 40 for nice ringing notes in the riff. And the simple lead afterwards in a different key is a nice touch.
Ahab: The thing that made search at 5 min. for a simple lead with a nice effect in that background that really adds a lot to the track.
Ahab: The Weedmen at 9 min 15. Monster riff I really like. Notice how they use variations in their timing, that also helps keeping away from a static feel.

imrae · Post by **imrae** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:31 am

I like this guitar tone. Unlike a lot of metal productions it is not too harsh at a moderate listening volume and so can be turned up a lot! I think there's room for more sizzle if you want to go there, but it's not a top priority. FWIW my reference point for doomy sludgy sound would be ISIS and OHHMS.

The drums sound like a dry mix from a drum machine. The hits sound heavily processed and independent of each other. If they were quieter and in a busy mix this could help them punch through, but in a simple track like this they will get more scrutiny and they're breaking the illusion of a live performance. There are two ways you can address this:

The first option is to make the drums sound more natural. Program in more variation in the velocity and timing. Use the toms. Use small amounts of reverb and delay to put the drums in a space together, and partially share that space with the guitars. Mix them a bit lower relative to guitars. Parallel compression and/or saturation on the drum mix can help pull them together and give a sense of live power.

The alternative is to go the other way and make it a clearly electronic part. Add more layers, smash the drum mix with fx, use grainy samples... I don't think it's what you were going for here, but borrowing from NIN isn't necessarily a bad thing

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:05 pm

the guitar side of things is pretty much nailed, has that early cathedral vibe, soul sacrifice type thing. (i was a teen in that era, ah the good old days)

the drums need a lot of work though, as mentioned above they need to sound more natural, for a classic doom vibe, or lose the natural kit and go full electronic with glitch and dirt for a more modern twist.
the real kit with perfect timing is destracting.

that said, a great little composition. and really nice to hear something like this around here

smd12 · Post by **smd12** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:09 pm

Thanks for the replies

@Boone77 I was told in the past my guitar tone sounded like ZZ Top, I like Billy's tone. Maybe you are right, not great for a Doom track. I probably did the song a great disservice by calling it doom track. I have no idea what it should be called. I didn't want to call it metal b/c it is 105 bpm or maybe 110. I would have to look at it again. Thanks for the compliment.

To create the guitar tone, I used a GT-100. I blended a Orange RV and 5150 Drive for one guitar track and blended MS 1959 I+II R-Fier Vintage for another guitar track. I ran both thru a H&K Red Box right into my RME UCX.

I am not a drummer and am clueless how to properly program the drums. I wasn't trying to make is sound a real drum kit, but I really wasn't going for the NIN sound either. Maybe more like Godflesh? I did add some reverb, maybe i need to add more and maybe send everything to a drum buss? I will work on the drums and see what happens.

The sounds in the background are synths I think I used Reaktor and Kontact 5

@imrae Thanks I am glad you like the tone. I am not a fan of distortion pedals (for my tone) to me it sounds to harsh. I tried many pedals and even the different sim pedals in the GT-100 I could get the sound I wanted. I am happy with the tone.

I wasn't trying to simulate live drumming, Like i said I need to go back and look at them at a different angle and try something to make it work. Thanks for the advise on how to mix them I will definitely give it a try.

@vurt Thanks for the compliment on the guitars. Yep, I need to work on the drums. I know what I'll be doing on Saturday

Again thank you very much for the positive feedback and the constructive criticism.

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:14 pm

I think everyone's covered the drums....and I think having a go at a more 'Godflesh' industrial type of beat might be a good idea too.

That guitar sound is ace though.

As well as ZZ Top, I was thinking a little bit of Celtic Frost? Seriously thick heavy sound!

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:14 pm

you said "godflesh"
you win kvr for tonight

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:17 pm

Needs a bit of Room verb on the drum track to give it more of a live in the room feel. Also the drum sound like they don't have the variations in tone/timbre as real drums usually have, so maybe it's just the sample library you're using? Either that or it's just my hearing which could very well be likely.

One sample library that you might want to check out for ideas is the BFD3 Heavy Kit. At least if anything you can listen to the demos for an idea on how to mix the drum sounds a bit.

https://fxpansion.com/products/bfdx/bfd ... /bfdheavy/

The Guitar is good and like others have said the Tone is quite nice. I also really like ZZTops tone and thought hey that sounds kind of familiar, so good work on it. However not sure that it's Doom Metal, but maybe more of a Black Sabbath/Zack Wylde style tone.

smd12 · Post by **smd12** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:31 pm

donkey tugger wrote:I think everyone's covered the drums....and I think having a go at a more 'Godflesh' industrial type of beat might be a good idea too.

That guitar sound is ace though. As well as ZZ Top, I was thinking a little bit of Celtic Frost? Seriously thick heavy sound!

Thanks

smd12 · Post by **smd12** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:31 pm

vurt wrote:you said "godflesh"
you win kvr for tonight

smd12 · Post by **smd12** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:34 pm

V0RT3X wrote:Needs a bit of Room verb on the drum track to give it more of a live in the room feel. Also the drum sound like they don't have the variations in tone/timbre as real drums usually have, so maybe it's just the sample library you're using? Either that or it's just my hearing which could very well be likely.

One sample library that you might want to check out for ideas is the BFD3 Heavy Kit. At least if anything you can listen to the demos for an idea on how to mix the drum sounds a bit.

https://fxpansion.com/products/bfdx/bfd ... /bfdheavy/

The Guitar is good and like others have said the Tone is quite nice. I also really like ZZTops tone and thought hey that sounds kind of familiar, so good work on it. However not sure that it's Doom Metal, but maybe more of a Black Sabbath/Zack Wylde style tone.

Thanks for the compliment on the guitar , I wasn't really going for ZZ Top but I will take it as a compliment.

I used Kik 2 for the kick and used a HH from Battery 4 and the snare from Abbey Roads Modern drums.

I changed the thread title

Boone777 · Post by **Boone777** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:18 am

You can try MTpowerdrumkit for your drums it's free and will put you more in the ballpark IMO. You could also try 'humanize' function in your DAW to de-quantize your drum a little bit. Before you try compressor and reverb you will get there easier by changing the drum sound. You have Kontakt so Drummica is another free alternative it might work as well. The style that comes to mind that would describe better your tone is Stoner rock/metal.

The hihat and cymbals in general are hard to replace a real drummer by samples. There is too much small nuances that get lost.

htcnext2 · Post by **htcnext2** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:25 pm

Yes, a bit more fuzz on the guitar would be nice for my taste and a bit more deepness for the drums, reverb or so would be cool too. But it sounds ok like it is. I am not that specialist in metal but: give it some polish aside from mainstream hard rock

Greetings
HM

smd12 · Post by **smd12** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:55 pm

@ Boone777 I changed the drums up a bit using what I had in Contact added more reverb and created a drum bus.

@ htcnext2 I am quite happy with the guitar tone, thanks for the feedback.

sjm · Post by **sjm** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:58 pm

If you just put more reverb on the drums, they will sound like a drum machine in the room. They need more variation in velocity, timing and not always the exact same beat over each section.

The good thing is you already have a good beat, you just need to breathe more life into it. Make variations of what you've got, shake things up, take away a few hits, add a couple more (not just where the fills are) and it will sound a lot better for it. In fact, in some parts, you've done this already - like at 4:30. It's still a bit static, but a lot more lively and evolving with the music.

And ... make general velocity changes before you clone everything so you are already in the ballpark and don't need to do it a gazillion times. Add hits after cloning so that you are varying each clip a bit!

Guitars sound good, it's quite obvious you're a guitar guy and not a drummer

Updated final version with vocals (Not a ) :) Doom Metal Track