TAL Sampler

[Richard deHove]

Another vote for multiple outputs.

[Saukar30]

Update:

Tune and stretch not working fixed. (v 2.1.1)
Parameter handling changed. (v 2.1.0)
UI improvements, mapping editor, layer view (v 2.1.0)
Low pass and High Pass filters per layer added. (v 2.1.0)

[stardustmedia]

OT: He updated also Uno-LX and Bassline 101... Great guy...

[DuX]

Yes, nice improvements. Love the thing to the bone. Love the way it sounds and what you can make it do. The combination of filters and stretching is unbeatable. You can do incredibly crazy stuff with TAL-S and it sounds really nice.

However, regarding multiple outputs and using TAL-S as a rhythm machine... I've built a template in Reaper that uses 8 TAL-S in one FX Chain, one per note, so I can have 8 separate stereo outputs and I'm simply blown away by the possibilities of that setup , but it also uses ridiculous amounts of memory even with only the INIT saw sample waveform loaded.

It uses 81MB per instance. That means TAL-S doesn't use shared memory between instances and that's really sad. Shared memory would be a huge improvement. As things are now, just one snare or a kick from TAL-Sampler will cost you more than 80MB of memory. Every additional instance "costs" 81MB of memory. 8 instances of TAL-Sampler use about 640MB of memory without *any* samples loaded. 640MB of memory+ for just 8 sounds? Be them drums or other sounds, it's just way too much. I use loads of sounds in my tracks. Hundreds. I believe others use that many, as well.

Now before the "memory-nazis" with 16GB+ of RAM jump in , it is also about efficiency, like using less CPU with shared memory, project loading times are shorter etc. For example, when I load NI Battery 3 it uses about 100MB and any subsequent instances will use a tad more than 50MB. It uses all the outputs they could use within VST specs, so I can have 16 stereo sounds, or 32 mono, with separate outputs per 100MB and every additional instance of 16 stereo sounds with 16 separate stereo outputs will "cost" less - about 56MB. That's quite a difference... And I'm not speaking about just playing samples as they are. There's always at least some processing involved in every sound.

Gosh it would be so nice if TAL-S at least used less memory per instance... Since making it have multiple outputs is far more work, I think, as it involves more or less big structural changes to the whole sampling engine, or does it? Anyway, it would be so nice to be able to use TAL-Sampler for all the hundreds of sounds...

So... is TAL-Sampler really meant to be used for a couple of sounds only...? Because that's sad.

P.S. TAL-Sampler could really use a MIDI channel setting when used this way, since it is in MIDI omni mode and receives all the notes all the time, all of the instances. That makes it a bit hard to use in multi-timbral mode like this, since it messes with mono/poly setting and that uses additional CPU. I'm mentioning this because it shouldn't be too hard to implement a MIDI channel filter.

Cheers!

[s28]

@DuX That seems like quite a lot. I'm not sure what it is on my comp, it probably is the same but I've never felt or thought of TAL sampler as a big cpu user.

I set up drum racks in ableton with 8 or so instances of it and have never noticed a big hit + more instances outside of those drum racks. I'm on an i5 w/ 8gb RAM. I've always felt it was relatively light but that is going by feel rather than checking it out. Never felt it's meant to be a plugin where only a few instances are possible either, I've always loaded as many as needed and it's been fine. These cpu situations are so variable so it could be a number of things but I think for you to get the track counts with TAL sampler that you want, it's most likely a case of getting a more powerful computer rather than hoping the cpu usage will be optimized that much. I hope it works out for you though whichever way it rolls out as TAL sampler deserves to be enjoyed to the fullest!

I also share a deep love for this plugin, it's one of my favorites and is my main/only sampler.

Very pleased to hear it's got hpf and lpf per layer, that's a nice addition.

[DuX]

@s28 TAL-Sampler is just fine regarding CPU usage, RAM usage for one instance and its workflow and speed. It certainly doesn't feel laggy like some synths do.

I think it's beautifully programmed and designed and all that, like all TAL synths. However, if we take things further from there... shared memory feature would be excellent if you want to use dozens of instances of it, because RAM requirements and project loading times become simply too big in comparison to B3/4 K4/5 and there are many copies of unnecessary things in RAM. it's a shame . I'm comparing it to Battery and Kontakt, which is not a bad thing, either. I just want to be able to use more of it, more sounds, without having to use GBs of RAM and I know it is possible.

Shared memory is used for all the things that are same across the multiple instances and saves on RAM and CPU, too. I guess it is easier to implement than 8 or more different "programs" within one instance of TAL-Sampler. Although, just having 8 or more buttons at the top for changing programs [with different outputs and MIDI channels] within one instance looks simple, too. That's how they solved multi-timbrality in ShortCircuit. At a click of a button, you changed to another program/preset. It was really simple working with ShortCircuit. I fondly remember it. But TAL-Sampler sounds much better... I'm addicted to it.

I'm a TAL-holic... and proud of it.

[Guenon]

I tested this by inserting 64 instances of TAL-Sampler into a project I was working on. Each of those instances had a saw wave sample patch going, and I triggered all of them simultaneously.

(The project also happened to have Valhalla Vintage Verb, Uhbik-A, Sigmund, 2 x Reaktor 6, Multiply, a bunch of Fabfilter Pro-Q 2 and so on.)

Live 10 running this whole project takes up roughly four and a half gigabytes of RAM. Project playback, with all of those TAL-Samplers triggering simultaneously, uses only a marginal amount of CPU. So, in my contrasting opinion, there is no problem with RAM use or CPU use. If it's not trivial to optimize either one, development resources of this fabulous sampler are better spent on something else. Again in my opinion

[DuX]

Yes, that's perfectly fine if you don't mind using 5GB of RAM for 64 sounds and more CPU than it should use. Also, if you're not mixing and don't want ENVs and Filters on your sounds while you're making a track you can use hundreds of sounds with just a few instances of TAL-Sampler.

I was just saying that if TAL-Sampler was multitimbral like ShortCircuit, it would use about 100 MB of RAM without the additional samples and even less CPU. That's quite a difference, isn't it?

You would at the same time be able to process much more samples with those wonderful ENVs, LFOs and Filters [not to mention *stretching* ], depending on the number of "programs" and outputs, "timbres".

And if only shared memory was implemented it would use, say, about half the RAM if not even less, judging by NI Battery RAM usage. That's not bad at all. Many plugin developers actually make use of that feature. Just try with some plugins from better known companies like NI, IKM, Waves, Voxengo, PSP...

Don't worry, developers like to get some input for new ideas how to make their products even better. This is just constructive criticism. It shouldn't make anybody angry. On the contrary, gives them something to think about. If they read this forum at all, that is.

[Guenon]

Don't worry, developers like to get some input for new ideas how to make their products even better. This is just constructive criticism. It shouldn't make anybody angry. On the contrary, gives them something to think about. If they read this forum at all, that is.

Yeah, no worries, just sharing my opinion on the level of resource consumption this thing has currently . As it stands, I think TAL-Sampler is a magnificent instrument already. I also think you are right, having multiple outs / multitimbral action would only benefit this wonderful product and its users in the end, there are many workflows that could enhance in its own right, even disregarding the RAM thing.

[DuX]

Yes, TAL-Sampler is a real refreshment. I wasn't that much excited about a sampler plugin in years. Besides, I've got loads of hardware ones. The thing is, all the samplers, even Kontakt, sound a bit dull to me... TAL-S is a game changer in that respect, maybe as much as The Legend, Repro and Diva for VA VSTis... The only other vintage sounding ITB samplers I know are Sonic Charge Cyclone and Redline Morgana, but I don't like neither of them much. Cyclone is very interesting but so hard to use it can give you a headache. And Morgana sounds so awful that it's quite unusable for whole projects. TAL-Sampler struck golden balance between the sound and usability.

[yul]

Any chance of it ever getting sync/FM/Ring mod? It would truly be a wonderful thing if it did.

[dntad]

I purchased TAL sampler and upgraded from 2.0.0 to 2.2.3 (previous and beta) and to my surprise I see the SFZ import and export has been removed from the layer / mapping editor. This was ideal for exporting/importing 'layers' to create multi layer patches. Does anyone know if this is an update error or intentional (or has it been moved somewhere else)? Or is there another way to export and import layers? The main import sfz/sf2 clears all layers before import.

- found it left bottom of each layer in the main window.

also my vote for the following features:
- multiple AMP envelopes assignable to layers
- multiple filters and filter envelopes
- multiple outputs

[DuX]

I purchased TAL sampler and upgraded from 2.0.0 to 2.2.3 (previous and beta) and to my surprise I see the SFZ import and export has been removed from the layer / mapping editor. This was ideal for exporting/importing 'layers' to create multi layer patches. Does anyone know if this is an update error or intentional (or has it been moved somewhere else)? Or is there another way to export and import layers? The main import sfz/sf2 clears all layers before import.

- found it left bottom of each layer in the main window.

also my vote for the following features:
- multiple AMP envelopes assignable to layers
- multiple filters and filter envelopes
- multiple outputs

That would be definitely better than memory sharing. Just one instance with a dozen of sounds that you can change the envelopes and filters to and send them to different outputs. This "thing" just calls for that... It would become my dream ITB sampler then. Even though I must say it's my dream ITB sampler already. Love how it sounds!

[v1o]

Hopefully there’s a summer sale.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Why isn't there a button for that in the main window (it's only in the detailed sample edit view). I'd use that all the time. And why does loop link not apply when you go back to the main window? Moving start does not move end, although going back to the detailed sample view shows loop link is still active.

Also - Why don't sample start, end, loop start and end, and fade respond to automation? The controls are there in the parameter list but they don't move when the daw controls change. Other controls change.