TL;DR: I actually make some money with music, but to keep it rolling I need to be very efficient. I'm looking for some new tools for exactly this purpose - of course they also need to sound top notch.
Prologue:
I've invested quite a lot the last two years and probably have already more equipment than the average home studio owner. And after two years of hard work I start to see ROI - I get lots of likes for my tracks, I have a business model established, found my niche making some money with music - I won't be rich and I never wanted to be - I just wanted Music to be my work, instead of delivering Pizza and I made that.
To make and keep it happening it's all about efficiency for me. My Maschine Mk3 already helps me a lot with that, unfortunately Native Instruments decided not to make the Maschine Software more than a rudimentary VST2 host with no Plugin Delay Compensation, no real automation and the worst sequencer on earth, topped off by more than a few bugs they won't fix.
So Studio One Professional is my next tool of choice, I already owned it before Maschine. But now that I know the workflow with the controller, I really miss something. It's about working speed, about intuitive muscle movements, about not looking at the screen when I dial in a mix.
I'm totally not sure what controller to buy for Studio One (and maybe Maschine, too)
Softube Console One:
Pro:
Analog SSL Sound
The workflow I want
Dials for the Plugin controls like EQ parameters
Con:
Analog SSL Sound
No 3rd Party Plugin Support
Presonus Faderport 8 / 16:
Pro:
Motorized Faders
8 / 16 LCD screens
Supports all VST, premapped for S1 native Plugins
Con:
Tiny screens with little information
Faders for VST controlls, not dials
Overpriced in my eyes, 500€-700€ for the 16er would be ok, 1000€...? I don't know..
Presonus Studio Live:
This looks more attractive, but I'm not sure what I'm missing - even though these are actual digital mixers, they seem to offer better functionality and features than the Faderports - but I have no idea how they really work as DAW-Controllers? Especially the older ones are even better priced, too. What obvious thing am I missing here?
Alternatives?
Like no-name Midi / USB Controllers, probably much cheaper, but assinging all controlls etc. probably will take weeks and may not result in the same as the real thing. I tried it couple of times before just with the rotaries of my Masterkeyboard, but usually gave up using those cause it never was quite right or didn't work at all.
Touchscreen + Studio One Remote:
Invested already a lot here but the result was disappointing, mainly because even expensive touchscreens where sh*t.
Thankful for all input!
Console 1 Mk2, Presonus Faderport, or...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 74 posts since 23 May, 2017
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- KVRAF
- 3897 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
Well the Komplete Kontrol keyboards offer you some control over some VST's, since effects are supported now some developers have started supporting the NKS standard, might grow in the future.
What I would recommend is getting anything second hand and try it, so that way you don't lose money.
I personally like Push a lot for controlling effects and Live mixer but you are using studio one so that's a no go.
What I would recommend is getting anything second hand and try it, so that way you don't lose money.
I personally like Push a lot for controlling effects and Live mixer but you are using studio one so that's a no go.
dedication to flying
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 74 posts since 23 May, 2017
Erm, no. Sorry, but NKS is a "made-up standard" by NI, trying to force good developers to play by NI's rules, which are basically "let other people do the work". So a Komplete Kontrol Keyboard definitely isn't gonna cut it here as a DAW-Controller for Studio One.
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- KVRAF
- 3897 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
Yes, it is a made up standard by NI, and yes it is "let the other people do the work" but it is the correct way to do it. They are not "forcing" anything, all developers are free to get on board or drop it.hollyWorse wrote:Erm, no. Sorry, but NKS is a "made-up standard" by NI, trying to force good developers to play by NI's rules, which are basically "let other people do the work". So a Komplete Kontrol Keyboard definitely isn't gonna cut it here as a DAW-Controller for Studio One.
NI doesn't has to put resources towards mapping, more time to develop the standard and controllers.This has been a big failure of past and present attempts: Automap, VIP and console 1.
It encourages long time support, because if the developers updates its plugins he will also update the NKS support and we don't have to wait for NI to do it.
I have seen all the intents for "auto mapping" done by the industry: HUI, Automap by Novation, Akai VIP, Console 1.. all of them have failed, in part because lot of the work must be done by the automap developer, they have also been done by companies not big enough in the software world to really commit to them. The NKS standard is the only one with a chance to success in the long term and the way NI is improving the controllers gives me hope they are committed to it.
BUt ok if you don't like it, but it is one of the few options, I think the faderport might be your best option but you will have to try it to see if it really works for you.
dedication to flying
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 74 posts since 23 May, 2017
Nevermind rod_zero - NI won't get love from me after what they're pulling for a decade now. But that's off topic.
My main point was, which DAW Controller for S1 will fit? Reading very bad reviews about Presonus faderport being poor quality and using clicky rotaries - not having individual pans / 8-16 dial controlls already was a nail in the coffin for me, cause I mainly want to use it on the console / channelstrip (volume, pan, eq, comp, etc.).
I don't really get it, all of the DAW controllers seem to be tripple the price they should be. On the other hand, when I slap Studio One Remote onto my touchscreen laptop I get every control for free. But a touchscreen is just a touchscreen.
I seriously don't understand these builts and why isn't there a real competitor? We're talking quite a lot money here..
Looking at Presonus CS18AI, it doesn't cost more than the faderport 16, has a full fledged digital mixer inside, and a lot more buttons and dials. But for me it's physically too bulky and buttons / surface seem to be rubberish and optimized for withstanding beer bottles rather than doing fine art in the studio.
I just don't know. Probably would have to test out all of the units first, but that means travelling 300km.
My main point was, which DAW Controller for S1 will fit? Reading very bad reviews about Presonus faderport being poor quality and using clicky rotaries - not having individual pans / 8-16 dial controlls already was a nail in the coffin for me, cause I mainly want to use it on the console / channelstrip (volume, pan, eq, comp, etc.).
I don't really get it, all of the DAW controllers seem to be tripple the price they should be. On the other hand, when I slap Studio One Remote onto my touchscreen laptop I get every control for free. But a touchscreen is just a touchscreen.
I seriously don't understand these builts and why isn't there a real competitor? We're talking quite a lot money here..
Looking at Presonus CS18AI, it doesn't cost more than the faderport 16, has a full fledged digital mixer inside, and a lot more buttons and dials. But for me it's physically too bulky and buttons / surface seem to be rubberish and optimized for withstanding beer bottles rather than doing fine art in the studio.
I just don't know. Probably would have to test out all of the units first, but that means travelling 300km.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 74 posts since 23 May, 2017
These prices are extremly bonkers, more than anything with pro audio gear.. I could easily buy a top-notch synth instead, like a Virus, Peak or Brute and utilize those knobs via CC instead. Or an MPC...
Please someone help me out - it seems to me a pure DAW controller makes little sense or am I getting it wrong? What do professionals use? The Avid is like the only controller that looks somewhat decent quality - again at a ridiculus price of 5k.
I mean most Pros are mixing in the box only - what do they use? I saw Tom Hades in the CM Masterclass only having Maschine / Jam / Launchpad on his desk.
I fear I'm gonna commit to the completely wrong thing here, but I need a DAW controller. I only got so much real estate on the screen and the Mixing Console takes away too much, especially when creating a track.
Please someone help me out - it seems to me a pure DAW controller makes little sense or am I getting it wrong? What do professionals use? The Avid is like the only controller that looks somewhat decent quality - again at a ridiculus price of 5k.
I mean most Pros are mixing in the box only - what do they use? I saw Tom Hades in the CM Masterclass only having Maschine / Jam / Launchpad on his desk.
I fear I'm gonna commit to the completely wrong thing here, but I need a DAW controller. I only got so much real estate on the screen and the Mixing Console takes away too much, especially when creating a track.
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- KVRAF
- 8828 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
300 km makes me think you are in europe. You can easily make a deal with Thomann, telling them in advance that you send back those you dislike. Get their thoughts as well, and try all which might fit your workflow in your home environment. You have 30 days to test...hollyWorse wrote:I just don't know. Probably would have to test out all of the units first, but that means travelling 300km.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 74 posts since 23 May, 2017
Well I ordered now the Icon Platform M+ at said store. Although it was a very "informed descision" this has been one of my worst buys ever. The Controller itself feels like it's gonna fall apart any second, it's just a superbad china product that was advertised in a misleading way - there're 4 "extension" ports on the Icon that lead me to believe you could actually connect more Platform X+ controllers to it. But that's not true. You need to connect every single controller via USB + Power Adaper Cable, so my plan to get myself 32 channels was pretty screwed in any practical sense.Tj Shredder wrote: 300 km makes me think you are in europe. You can easily make a deal with Thomann, telling them in advance that you send back those you dislike. Get their thoughts as well, and try all which might fit your workflow in your home environment. You have 30 days to test...
The other part of the story was mostly the fault of Studio One. Because you cannot:
- See which bank of faders you've currently selected
- Write automation without preparing each parameter with the mouse
- Use the controller "zoom", if the Arranger window is not in focus
- ...
As I also found out now, the official Presonus Faderports suffer from the same issues - and cost a lot more.
This was such a bad experience and exactly what I feared first hand. I must say, if I had seen and touched the Icon in a store, I wouldn't have considered buying it for a second.
So I've sent it back now and am pretty much at the beginning again. Let me summarize:
- There's "cheap" controllers that have little to no practical value and are (imo) overpriced at least 200%
- There's extremely expensive controllers, like the SSL Nucleus, like 4500€ lol
- There's digital mixers by Presonus, which probably cost more than half for the part I don't need: a digital mixer. These also go by prices from 2500€ - 3500€. Probably still a much better value than the Nucleus, but still. And these are HUGE, I would have to rebuild my home studio for it.
HEEELLLP!!!!
