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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12308 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Wed May 16, 2018 1:27 pm Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

Mister Natural wrote:OK - thx for your feedback Wags
I struggle w/my phrasing & one day, I plan on taking voice lessons again.


Ah yes, phrasing is one of the most difficult parts of singing. I sometimes struggle with it as well. But that's nothing next to the lousy quality of my voice itself.

Taking voice lessons will definitely help.
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Mister Natural
KVRAF
 
2216 posts since 28 Oct, 2007, from michigan

Postby Mister Natural; Wed May 16, 2018 2:49 pm Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

originally was actually dual music major at college voice / composition
I sang(previous century) opera, choir since I was ~10, musical theater, recital/juried, r & r clubs, jazz club baritone
fwiw - Melodyne is all over the vocal takes - hard tuning itself to Cm or Eb - there are a couple of deliberate passing tones outside the chromatic . . .
- remind me to tell/share baritone and soprano jokes . . .

peace
"the digital photo of that guitar just doesn't have the same warmth as an analog photo for me"
https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/tracks
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Mister Natural
KVRAF
 
2216 posts since 28 Oct, 2007, from michigan

Postby Mister Natural; Wed May 16, 2018 3:32 pm Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

ok
how does a soprano screw in a lightbulb ?



stands in one place and the world revolves around her !



musician jokes are funny b/c they're totally true



peace
"the digital photo of that guitar just doesn't have the same warmth as an analog photo for me"
https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/tracks
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FlyingNoodle
KVRist
 
74 posts since 1 Mar, 2017, from Wales, UK

Postby FlyingNoodle; Thu May 17, 2018 2:48 am Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

Mister Natural wrote:let me know what you think of my piece this month fellas
it's a cover of one of my most favorite 1980s pop songs from the WaterBoys


I think you've taken the essence of the original and stamped your style on it, that's no mean feat. :clap:

Have you thought about doing others, you have the voice for it: Spandau Ballet - True, Tears For Fears - Everybody Wants To Rule The World, and a-ha - Take On Me

From a mix point of view I prefer the vocal sound you had in One Thousand Rox, maybe with a little more reverb and delay, depending on the context.
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skipscada
KVRian
 
1418 posts since 22 Oct, 2004, from Schmocation

Postby skipscada; Thu May 17, 2018 6:20 am Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

FlyingNoodle wrote:Have you thought about doing others, you have the voice for it: a-ha - Take On Me


Piece of cake. Vocal range of about 17 octaves.
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Mister Natural
KVRAF
 
2216 posts since 28 Oct, 2007, from michigan

Postby Mister Natural; Thu May 17, 2018 7:06 am Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

FlyingNoodle wrote:I think you've taken the essence of the original and stamped your style on it, that's no mean feat...

thank you for your feedback
"the digital photo of that guitar just doesn't have the same warmth as an analog photo for me"
https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/tracks
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FlyingNoodle
KVRist
 
74 posts since 1 Mar, 2017, from Wales, UK

Postby FlyingNoodle; Thu May 17, 2018 9:17 am Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

skipscada wrote:
FlyingNoodle wrote:Have you thought about doing others, you have the voice for it: a-ha - Take On Me


Piece of cake. Vocal range of about 17 octaves.


I think Melodyne does 24 octaves for the hard parts, we got this :hihi:
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12308 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Thu May 17, 2018 9:22 am Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

FlyingNoodle wrote:
skipscada wrote:
FlyingNoodle wrote:Have you thought about doing others, you have the voice for it: a-ha - Take On Me


Piece of cake. Vocal range of about 17 octaves.


I think Melodyne does 24 octaves for the hard parts, we got this :hihi:


Except Morten Harket is a freak of nature and Melodyne is just a machine.
Tbase2000
KVRist
 
61 posts since 23 Oct, 2017

Postby Tbase2000; Thu May 17, 2018 3:23 pm Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

Just throwing this out for the vocalists who aren't happy with their voice or sound...don't let it hold you back or slow down your creativity. I personally cringe when I hear my voice played back. Every once in a while I nail a chorus or a phrase in a verse but most of the time it's garbage to me. Here's the strange thing, some people like it...so I keep singing. I can sing about as good as I can play guitar...and that's not going very far...power chords mostly. So that's where I stay. Learn what your limits are and try as much as a guitar player does on getting that personal sound. Do what you can do well. I always have 4 tracks of vocals minimum. Two mains, two extra wide harmonies for chorus as an example. I process the hell out of each track...compressors, eq, tube amps, amp sims, and try proper mic techniques and using different mics. At the end of the day, the quality of the recording will be heard at the very least. I usually don't have time to go back and Melodyne but it's a great tool. I haven't exactly mastered using it yet but I see where someone who was good at it could completely change everything. Harmonize. Try different products out there. By recording yourself and working with your shortcomings you learn to record someone else and fix their issues. I didn't have time to do vocals this month but I did want to drop a few words in and sample them and play with the DJ effects. Maybe next time. Really solid contest this month. Keep them coming in.
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skipscada
KVRian
 
1418 posts since 22 Oct, 2004, from Schmocation

Postby skipscada; Fri May 18, 2018 9:41 am Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

As a reluctant, technically inept vocalist, I appreciate your words, Tbase2000. The music that is closest to my heart and the one it makes sense for me to try to make is based around vocals. Whenever possible I've tried to collaborate with vocalists, but at this stage in my life, it's not that easy to hook up with someone. I fail to convince myself that I can do a decent job of it myself and basically think of my vocals as a placeholder, with the idea that if the track is decent I'll hook up with a vocalist sometime. Approaching it with that attitude is probably a bad start. Anyway, I've learnt a little, for example to try to write for a register that brings out the least cringeworthy aspects of my voice. Mixing techniques like the ones you suggest can help a lot, but it's worth aiming for the best take you can do before trying to polish it. Partly that's a case of rehearsing it a sufficient amount of time. In my case, sufficient is about 50 times, so that's not going to happen. Plus I can rarely sing out loud since I mostly record at night.

By the way, I recently recorded a tenor who studies classical/opera and needed a recording to apply for some sort of course. He was pretty good, yet guess what he did when he listened to the recording ... He cringed and looked about ready to pack in his studies. A couple of weeks later he called and told me he got the place. Obviously the panel who judged the recording thought it was pretty good. I guess he was only listening for errors and weak points while they listened for potential and strong points.
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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
 
4478 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from the grimness of yorkshire

Postby donkey tugger; Fri May 18, 2018 2:43 pm Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

Interesting stuff, and I think most singers have a lot in common in respect of being very self-critical. I love singing live, be it when I used to be in bands, at karaoke, or even at work (our bank of desks used to do a mean 3 part harmony... :scared: ), but as soon as the record button is pressed everything goes to pot and it takes me ages to get a decent take of something I'd been blasting out no problem for ages beforehand. :x Then when I finally do manage to cobble together something it always sounds shite, until I listen to it a bit more objectively after a few hours away, and decide it'll do actually.

Same with the guitar - I can sometimes when just messing about play some quite flashy fancy stuff. No chance when recording - the bastard fingers seem to have a life of their own.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12308 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri May 18, 2018 2:59 pm Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

donkey tugger wrote:Interesting stuff, and I think most singers have a lot in common in respect of being very self-critical. I love singing live, be it when I used to be in bands, at karaoke, or even at work (our bank of desks used to do a mean 3 part harmony... :scared: ), but as soon as the record button is pressed everything goes to pot and it takes me ages to get a decent take of something I'd been blasting out no problem for ages beforehand. :x Then when I finally do manage to cobble together something it always sounds shite, until I listen to it a bit more objectively after a few hours away, and decide it'll do actually.

Same with the guitar - I can sometimes when just messing about play some quite flashy fancy stuff. No chance when recording - the bastard fingers seem to have a life of their own.


It's called mic fright. Lots of people have it.

I don't have that problem because I can't play or sing for shit no matter what the situation.
Tbase2000
KVRist
 
61 posts since 23 Oct, 2017

Postby Tbase2000; Fri May 18, 2018 4:05 pm Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

Vocals are tough. Someone mentioned writers block this month and that is another really tough thing when specifically doing vocals. Many times I'm just not feeling it and it's obviously bland if you try and fake it. I might have a melody in my head for doing vocals but that's as far as it goes. Or even worse, I'll like a part but when I sing it 50 times it's always exactly flat. That's when I break out the keyboard aka midi-interface and lay down a piano or lead sound note for note. Basically drop a lead groovy piano on-top of the song. This gives me a solid key I can follow to stay in tune and it's really not that much extra work. A lot easier than redoing vocals again and it helps find a vocal melody that doesn't just copy the music exactly.
Quick story: On one of my last collabs I tried to do vocals...wrote lyrics, recorded, pitched it to the guitar player and it was totally rejected. Ok...no problem. Wrote some different lyrics, tried a different approach rhythmically which is difficult to do by the way after you get a song in your head...and ZAP! Rejected again. (Are you kidding me right now?) Now it's personal not to mention all the time wasted. Hurts your feelings to but that's just the hurtful truth...so after some guitar smashing and amp kicking...I came up with the solution. Just have him drop a rhythmic lead over his (technically a collab but...) song so I can hear what is in your head. After that...it was easy to follow his idea and everyone was happy. Boom!
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FlyingNoodle
KVRist
 
74 posts since 1 Mar, 2017, from Wales, UK

Postby FlyingNoodle; Sat May 19, 2018 3:31 am Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

I haven't given my own vocals much time to be honest, mostly because I can't remember the words as I'm trying to sing them :? and reading them feels like I'm reading the 6 o'clock news and weather.

Tbase2000 wrote:Or even worse, I'll like a part but when I sing it 50 times it's always exactly flat. That's when I break out the keyboard aka midi-interface and lay down a piano or lead sound note for note. Basically drop a lead groovy piano on-top of the song. This gives me a solid key I can follow to stay in tune and it's really not that much extra work.


That's a good idea. I thought of doing the same and adding a basic click track to highlight points of interest, accents, groove and timing. So it creates a 3D guide track (tone vs groove)

Tbase2000 wrote:I came up with the solution. Just have him drop a rhythmic lead over his (technically a collab but...) song so I can hear what is in your head. After that...it was easy to follow his idea and everyone was happy. Boom!


From a producers point of view I find it easier starting with an acapella and chord progression than trying to have someone write lyrics and make them fit into something I'd already written.
This month I already had some ideas down before finding the vocals I was happy with, so it took a bit of extra work to bring everything together in the end.

On that note I'm aiming to post my entry later next week near the deadline. I've been so busy this past week (glad it's the weekend :hyper: ) so I can put some hours into it now.
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Mister Natural
KVRAF
 
2216 posts since 28 Oct, 2007, from michigan

Postby Mister Natural; Wed May 23, 2018 9:08 am Re: May Contest: Gossip - Everything’s fine!

below is a re-mix of my submission this month fwiw. The arrangement has not changed in any way but I have taken a bit of the feedback given by you fellas and others on the efx treatment and levels
added more verb to vocals, bass gtr has some automated EQ to bring out the Jaco Pastorious-like harmonics, raised the levels of the backing chorus vocals, cleaned-up some of the delays(truths-s-s-s-s) but that's about it :
https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/swc0 ... he-moonwav

clearly, this song has 5 verses and a middle section that I haven't mixed as of yet and if I want to "finish" this project, I will include the entire thing out of respect for the tune, even the "rap" over the final verse. I think I'd do that as a whisper.

peace
"the digital photo of that guitar just doesn't have the same warmth as an analog photo for me"
https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/tracks
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