KVR Audio

kpv · Post by **kpv** » Sun May 20, 2018 4:33 pm

Hello,

*accidentally posted this in the DAW forum too, can be deleted over there*

here comes a long one for you experienced DAW/Windows users! I've posted that post on couple of forums and serched all over the internet and I've found absolutely nothing of value, not even a clue on where to search on how to fix this once and for all. : (

My machine is a 100% updated and freshly installed Windows 10 river wise Lenovo Legion y520 700HQ, 24gb DDR4 RAM and 500gb SSD drive, so the laptop is obviously beyond capable of bedroom production and than some.

However, when I first plugged the machine and set it up + followed every instruction I could find online on how to optimize Windows 10 for DAW usage, the system was totally broken - just pops and crackles. Thats when I learned about "DPC Latency". After some Googling, I downloaded Latencymon and tracked down what drivers were causing the latency, and the reason for total audio crackles was the driver for my WIFI (which seems to be quiet common) and also some latency from the driver for the nvidia video card (which appearantly has shitty drivers for audio). I disabled those as, along with the webcam, bluetooth cardreader and couple of other drivers I'd never be using for a computer that is only used for DAW and wont even be connected to the internet. My computer has a Intel HD 630 Graphics interface whom does not seem to be causing any issues according to latencymon like the nvidia card did.

So, after disabling the WIFI driver, my machine went from being 100% useless due to dropouts and all red traces in Latencymon to being perfectly fine, all green traces in Latencymon, and after disabling the other drivers, my system is pretty smooth. However, Latencymon still reports that wdf01000.sys is causing alot of latency, but not those terrible CPU spikes all the time like my wifi card, so there is no dropouts/crackling unless I drive the CPU very hard with vst instruments. I've noticed like one second of droput maybe once every few hours on projects with some VST instruments (I'm mainly sequencing external hardware and using Totalmix as mixer). Is that normal Windows 10 performance, or maybe just Ableton 10 yet to become stable?

I've not found a single conclusion on how to disable this wdf01000.sys driver on Google, but couple of other users have been experiencing Latencymon reporting wdf01000.sys as a source of DPC latency, but I'm not sure how bad they were. In my case it does not strike me as a problem, but rather as a psychologial itch, i'm sure many of you are familiar with that feeling.

So, I guess my question is, is DPC latency inevitable in Windows 10 and something users just live with or can it be minimzied even further than already having a smooth system? Latencymon says my system is now "Capable of audio work without dropouts" which is right, no red traces over there and no constant crackle/dropout. Does "DPC Latency" even matter if audio playback is smooth and glitch free? After all, I'm using RME which has the best ASIO drivers. Does anybody have any knowledge about this wdf01000.sys driver who is the main source of DPC latency on my system and can it be disabled like the WIFI/Nvidia driver problems to reduce the Latency Latencymon is reporting even further?

TL;DR Is DPC latency on a Windows 10 inevitable to some degree, is a one second dropout/crackle once every few hours of VST DAW work in Ableton 10.0.1 normal or abnormal if the system with a RME card is up and running, and does anybody know how to disable that wdf01000.sys which Latencymon reports to be the last source of someserious latency on my computer system?

Thanks alot, I really hope somebody has a clue. I'm sure the wdf01000.sys driver is cursing many Windows 10 Lenovo laptops, as other people are experiencing this online!

legendCNCD · Post by **legendCNCD** » Mon May 21, 2018 12:06 pm

I think the answer is more like: Depends on the hardware/drivers, than Windows itself.

Its not normal to have a second of dropout every few hours anyway.

kpv · Post by **kpv** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:10 pm

Thanks for the reply.

So what am I supposed to do to figure out what driver is bad? *There is probably nothing wrong with the hardware itself I think as everything seems to be good except for 1.1 second of DPC latency that I'd love to lower.

Kaine · Post by **Kaine** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:25 pm

kpv wrote:However, Latencymon still reports that wdf01000.sys is causing alot of latency,

Ahhh, but is it actually failing the test? You can chase your tail all day with DPC scores as the will always be a highest driver. Ultimately, it either works or it doesn't.

kpv wrote: but not those terrible CPU spikes all the time like my wifi card, so there is no dropouts/crackling unless I drive the CPU very hard with vst instruments.

How hard is the CPU being run at this point? What's device task manager saying for the total CPU usage? If it's breaking up and your over 80% CPU load, that's probably working as intended.

I've noticed like one second of droput maybe once every few hours on projects with some VST instruments (I'm mainly sequencing external hardware and using Totalmix as mixer). Is that normal Windows 10 performance, or maybe just Ableton 10 yet to become stable?

Can't speak for A10 as I haven't updated myself yet, but it shouldn't be for Windows. It's possible it's calling back for something at those points (if it's as regular as "ever couple of hours") you'd just need to figure out what and why and then disable it.

I've not found a single conclusion on how to disable this wdf01000.sys driver on Google,

Nor will you I'm afraid. WDF is "windows drivers framework" and the catch all for the interaction state between all the various drivers. All it's telling you is that something with a driver is being erratic, which lets face it means bugger all to anyone, including the people who write the drivers.

If it's crashed you can try pulling the log files and see what it was handling at the time.

If it hasn't crashed then the WPA (windows performance analyzer) tool is the way forward, as it lets you drill down a bit into what's being handled by WDF at the time of the fault process, although given that it is a developer level tool, the learning curve in handling it is a little steep to say the least.

but couple of other users have been experiencing Latencymon reporting wdf01000.sys as a source of DPC latency, but I'm not sure how bad they were. In my case it does not strike me as a problem, but rather as a psychologial itch, i'm sure many of you are familiar with that feeling.

This is what I was querying with the opening question.

So, I guess my question is, is DPC latency inevitable in Windows 10 and something users just live with or can it be minimzied even further than already having a smooth system?

Never inevitable, although given it's dictated by the choice of hardware, with a desktop it's easy to work around. Little bit harder with a laptop as you need to design it from the ground up with it in mind... or just get lucky.

Latencymon says my system is now "Capable of audio work without dropouts" which is right, no red traces over there and no constant crackle/dropout.

Ahh, that was the answer I was looking for...

Does "DPC Latency" even matter if audio playback is smooth and glitch free?

Not in the slightest. Stop fiddling.

kpv · Post by **kpv** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:23 pm

Thank you so much for the reply!

Yes, both Latencymon and DPC checker tell me that my computer should be capable of working with audio without dropouts. Only green trails in Latencymon, yellow in DPC checker, with average DPC Latency of ~ 1100µs while Ableton is in use and 1300 when the computer is doing nothing.

"How hard is the CPU being run at this point? What's device task manager saying for the total CPU usage? If it's breaking up and your over 80% CPU load, that's probably working as intended."

When I push Ableton to its limits untill it starts to crackle, the CPU can go over ~ 80%. Otherwise, while nothing is going on CPU is around 1-3%. I've got the turbo setting in power manager, as recommended for DAWs, so the computer itself is performing very good.

Thank you for the last answer too! Guess I can stop scratching that itch and go back to making music. I just felt like it was worth trying to get those yellow DPC traces in DPC Latency checker to green since I already got rid of the dropouts.

Cheers

Kaine · Post by **Kaine** » Tue May 22, 2018 11:48 am

You can ignore DPC checker by this point, it's never functioned properly under the more recent OS builds. If Latency Monitor is looking good, then you're good.

With the rest of it, yeah, that's all sounding fine and as long as it sounds great to your ears, get on with the more interesting stuff!

kpv · Post by **kpv** » Tue May 22, 2018 3:39 pm

Oh thank you so much for confirming. Latencymon looks much better than the yellow DPC checker. Off to making tracks. Havea nice summer Kaine. : )

metamorphosis · Post by **metamorphosis** » Sat May 26, 2018 5:11 am

Just in case someone else comes looking for this thread at a later point in time,
double-check that you dont' have some unused device in your system (eg. firewire/ieee1394) that's causing issues.

kpv · Post by **kpv** » Sat May 26, 2018 4:32 pm

Hello,

Im sure this thread will be revisited again, this is not uncommon problem. Ive disabled most devices I dont need for audio in device manager, however ive not fiddled with deactivating anything under "system devices" as im not an advanced user. Webcam, card reader, nvidia card, bluetooth, printer, wifi, all audio except for RME drivers are all disabled.

Any suggestions? Ive not installef anything firewire related as far as I know, so I dont know how to disable that.

metamorphosis · Post by **metamorphosis** » Wed May 30, 2018 11:08 am

kpv wrote:Hello,

Im sure this thread will be revisited again, this is not uncommon problem. Ive disabled most devices I dont need for audio in device manager, however ive not fiddled with deactivating anything under "system devices" as im not an advanced user. Webcam, card reader, nvidia card, bluetooth, printer, wifi, all audio except for RME drivers are all disabled.

Any suggestions? Ive not installef anything firewire related as far as I know, so I dont know how to disable that.

I'm assuming you've turned off all speedstep/etc features in the bios/UEFI and set your windows power config to high performance?

kpv · Post by **kpv** » Thu May 31, 2018 3:51 pm

Hello again,

yes. Ive literally followed every step ive found online to optimize my machine for DAW use. However, there are no accessable CPU settings in the y520 bios. Core parking is disabled though.

vertex808 · Post by **vertex808** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:37 am

Hello!

After several days of troubleshooting i managed to solve this issue on my Lenovo Y520!

What solved it in the end was in the Device manager to disable the wifi driver!

Make sure that you disable "Realtek 8821AE Wireless LAN 802.11ac PCI-E NIC". When that driver is disabled i have audio working again

I can confirm that an ASUS WL-167G V3 USB wifi unit is working and not causing any latency issues so i am able to browse the web while making music.

Hope this post helps someone stuck on this!

Mysterious DPC Latency "wdf01000.sys" how to fix?