Behring suing forum users

[Scotty]

I agree. Instead of talking about all those new synths, their 3 years warranties, acquisition of TC, Tannoy all the old Behringer tropes about being crap is resurfacing generating ill will for the company as they appear to attack a community. I have my share of Behringer stuff, ADA8200, DX3216, Heaphone Amp, UC404 Interface, Model D etc. That stuff sits next to Neve, UA , Avalon, RME and other high end gear without apology. This was a huge miscalculation by Behringer. Even if they won the lawsuit it would have been a pyrrhic victory.

If these reports are true, then I don't know what they're thinking. They deservedly earned goodwill by releasing some interesting and affordable products lately, and shook things up in the synth market. It would be far more productive to let the quality of their products speak for itself. Instead, something like this could just end up negating that goodwill.

[bungle]

I didn’t not see why forums are different from newspapers or any other media, if it is proven that you are yelling lies about someone publicly with a resulting damage to their reputation then you are at fault and it should be possible to make those people stop via legal methods.

I don’t have particularly strong feelings either way about what B are doing with hardware clones, the software vendors on this site have been doing it with software (including modelling the circuit diagram at component level...this is cloning to software) if the circuit has been been legally protected then it’s public domain, it can only be one or the other.

As for the quality of B products, I have an X32 (which has had more and better free updates than any other hardware product I have ever owned) and a Deepmind 12. The quality is very good, I think it is on all recent products.

A forum is by its very nature a public discussion, not a reporting of facts, in a discussion you will get opinion based on experience, if twenty forum users stated that they had had issues with a certain companies products, this is opinion based on their individual experience and it is very cynical for any company to try and sue over that.

[aMUSEd]

I didn’t not see why forums are different from newspapers or any other media, if it is proven that you are yelling lies about someone publicly with a resulting damage to their reputation then you are at fault and it should be possible to make those people stop via legal methods.

I don’t have particularly strong feelings either way about what B are doing with hardware clones, the software vendors on this site have been doing it with software (including modelling the circuit diagram at component level...this is cloning to software) if the circuit has been been legally protected then it’s public domain, it can only be one or the other.

As for the quality of B products, I have an X32 (which has had more and better free updates than any other hardware product I have ever owned) and a Deepmind 12. The quality is very good, I think it is on all recent products.

A forum is by its very nature a public discussion, not a reporting of facts, in a discussion you will get opinion based on experience, if twenty forum users stated that they had had issues with a certain companies products, this is opinion based on their individual experience and it is very cynical for any company to try and sue over that.

Forums are meant to be more like people talking in a room in real life than a newspaper, they are based on opinion and trying to shut down expression of opinion is just bullying behaviour.

[farlukar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behringer#Legal_cases

They lucked out in the Mackie case due to differences in legalese:

The reasoning for the dismissal of the charges had to do with copyright/design-right language in the laws between the USA and the UK, and what essentially amounted to a loophole provided therein. It seems, though it is never explicitly said, that the Behringer design was a copy of the Mackie board. Regardless, the language within the governing laws did not allow Mackie any leverage against Behringer.

Apparently, the mixers were identical down to circuit board level.
After settlement, the B mixers had a slightly different appearance.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Apparently, the mixers were identical down to circuit board level.

Which is a world away from the CEO's "Imagine there was only one car or guitar manufacturer." analogies.

And this: "Often one company will establish a new market opportunity for a unique product and others will follow with their versions of that pioneering product. Think iPhone followed by Samsung Galaxy. This is the principle of competition." Yes, Uli! Someone else having invented the mixing desk doesn't stop you from making mixing desks, also. That doesn't mean you can make the same mixing desk

[bungle]

I didn’t not see why forums are different from newspapers or any other media, if it is proven that you are yelling lies about someone publicly with a resulting damage to their reputation then you are at fault and it should be possible to make those people stop via legal methods.

I don’t have particularly strong feelings either way about what B are doing with hardware clones, the software vendors on this site have been doing it with software (including modelling the circuit diagram at component level...this is cloning to software) if the circuit has been been legally protected then it’s public domain, it can only be one or the other.

As for the quality of B products, I have an X32 (which has had more and better free updates than any other hardware product I have ever owned) and a Deepmind 12. The quality is very good, I think it is on all recent products.

A forum is by its very nature a public discussion, not a reporting of facts, in a discussion you will get opinion based on experience, if twenty forum users stated that they had had issues with a certain companies products, this is opinion based on their individual experience and it is very cynical for any company to try and sue over that.

Forums are meant to be more like people talking in a room in real life than a newspaper, they are based on opinion and trying to shut down expression of opinion is just bullying behaviour.

I have just had a post removed from GS and the moderator who removed it has sent me a PM saying that he agrees with what i wrote entirely (That GS should be defending its users against this behaviour) but they have been told to remove everything because somebody (I am not mentioning his name) is a complete sociopath and will take down anybody in his path.
The Moderator was even worried that the PM could be used against him personally.

This is absolutely ridiculous !!!!!!

[Jace-BeOS]

If these reports are true, then I don't know what they're thinking. They deservedly earned goodwill by releasing some interesting and affordable products lately, and shook things up in the synth market. It would be far more productive to let the quality of their products speak for itself. Instead, something like this could just end up negating that goodwill.

Agreed. Right now, after seeing this illegitimate complaint/lawsuit bullshit, I feel kind of dirty for buying a Behringer X-Touch (so far, it's working fine for me with Logic on my iMac). I don't buy much (because poverty) but I needed a control surface to replace my M-Audio/Avid-abandoned ProjectMix I/O.

[Jace-BeOS]

Woah. I didn't know Music Group owned TC Electronic. Is that why they've gone so deep into guitar products the last several years?

I hate consolidation.

[maschinelf]

Agreed. Right now, after seeing this illegitimate complaint/lawsuit bullshit, I feel kind of dirty for buying a Behringer X-Touch (so far, it's working fine for me with Logic on my iMac). I don't buy much (because poverty) but I needed a control surface to replace my M-Audio/Avid-abandoned ProjectMix I/O.

I don’t think I’d feel dirty about it if I already owned one of their products. And my choice of what I buy in future will still be dictated by need, functionality, quality and price, which also means choosing one of theirs if it comes out on top. Though yes if there are 2-3 products from different companies that are similar in most respects, then perceived ethics and goodwill would certainly factor into it.

There are some posts I read where ppl are like they won’t buy from them again. This kind of audio-warrior crusade also seems quite pointless, unless one is already living off the grid, only buying from small local enterprises, is actively involved in eco-sustainability etc.

[fmr]

In all fairness, if things are like Uli Behringer described, I don't think I can blame him for taking action. Things are not always in black and white, and rushing out to condemn Behringer for defending their position doesn't seem right when we clearly don't have knowledge of all the facts.

Unfortunately, this is a (very bad) habit in social networks, nowadays.

[woggle]

In all fairness, if things are like Uli Behringer described, I don't think I can blame him for taking action. Things are not always in black and white, and rushing out to condemn Behringer for defending their position doesn't seem right when we clearly don't have knowledge of all the facts.

Unfortunately, this is a (very bad) habit in social networks, nowadays.

totally agree - I don't see why "the net" is sacrosanct.

[farlukar]

Well, They do copy things almost verbatim. The aforementioned cable tester, the Mackie mixers, the Line6 Pod, the Boss pedals, etc.
Statement of fact is not defamation.

[woggle]

Statement of fact is not defamation.

depends on the jurisdiction

[sqigls]

Streisand effect for sure.
I'd almost decided I'd buy one or two of the clones. not now,
his justification just really turned me off. What a cod.

[chk071]

Forums are meant to be more like people talking in a room in real life than a newspaper, they are based on opinion and trying to shut down expression of opinion is just bullying behaviour.

I wouldn't generally agree with that. Just like in our society, there is a limit to freedom of speech, when it becomes insultive, defamatory, or discriminating. Also, whenever people live together, there is also a limit to your personal freedom, or freedom of speech, when it endangers the freedom, or freedom of speech of others.

Apart from that, i don't really see a forum, social media, or the internet as "talking in a room", rather than being a "newspaper". Of course, people agitate, and try influence in all kinds of manner on the internet. It's a public place, even a platform, where you can achieve much more than in real life, because in real life, you wouldn't go in the city, take a stool, climb on it, and pray your opinion. At least most people wouldn't do that. And, there's even a big advantage you have on the net. You can do all that anonymously, without having to face consequences in form of rotten eggs thrown at you.

So, yeah, all in all, i'd say forums, social media and the internet are VASTLY different to talking in a room. So, there have to be rules. AND, there's even different rules for different sites, because they're run by different people, for different reasons. Also something many people don't seem to get. There is no freedom of speech on a privately run site, where the site owner, admins and mods run it in their spare time, maybe even pay it with their own money, or, depend on companies to advertise on their sites, OR to have a beneficial win-win relationship, in which the site, and the companies benefit from publicity.