Lydian tonicization in rock

[jancivil]

Here's the simplest way I can think of off the top of my head to show the meaning of Lydian SCALE in music where we can talk about harmony that isn't involved in modal music: In Zappa's Black Napkins here are two chords and that's it. There are scalar formations for each that are separate (note well: not a lot of time dwelled on either). C#m and D major 7.
First, it's obvious the C# minor pentatonic works throughout;
but we haven't even accounted for the note D with that.

So: let's extend C# E F# G# B to a 7 note scale ( to begin with noting what's played by FZ and other soloists); add our root of D^7 and its 5th A. Et voila, D Lydian.
In practice, those two, D and A (D more than A) work against the C#m. We look at the normal jazzesque extensions for that object. Major 9 is nice, D# rather than D which is just a clunker on C#m; it's a minor quality chord so the ♮11, F#, is preferred; the A# at the 13th is a happier choice than A natural (eg., the more sonorous Maj 3 over the F#). So we get C# Dorian.

Now, this has nowt to do with Clement's thesis here but it was just an obvious way to show we may talk about these jobs as scales without it being a discussion of modal music. I was always a modal player and a stickler for avoiding confusion with tonal rules.
NB: As I say above, we aren't holding onto either chord for long so we aren't engaged in actual modal music.
With Zappa we have a thing consistently going on where the center moves but the melodic material is obviously a scale with the name of a mode.
(The Black Page "#2" amounts to a Lydian scale for each chord).
Usually Lydian but frequently Dorian; these are our major and minor for this music. We have a whole framework to work with.
This one we have to call chromatic, C# to D for starters. Some uses are diatonic.

[BertKoor]

Venn diagram of Rock Music and Frank Zappa:.

[jancivil]

who cares

https://youtu.be/T1tTzkhRedY?si=uE4Fj9xq7u1hVKjD

[jancivil]

what is this, progressive R&B
https://youtu.be/YtV2iJZlX6A?si=1njjuiOU66npBizk

the intro with _Eddie Jobson_ behind BIANCA is just exquisite

[jancivil]

back to the topic, Clement's examples incl. FZ pretty much have to be called 'rock music', whether or not one has some definition in mind of 'rock music' we aren't hipped to. Village of the Sun; it ain't jazz, it ain't country, it ain't "Urban"... FFS. It's a bit of nostalgia for the old folks.
it has a rock kind of beat . The main tonal center is F and its first period cadences I - II in what Clement calls a Lydian half cadence, G major chord taking us back to F Lydian after a shift or two. His citing a Kate Bush tune, maybe Kate Bush has gone past dumbass rock 'n roll as well.

is this whole idea just triggering, JFC. Go do what interests you, I don't heckle you at those spots.

As to the remarks 'I only care about theory I can use', well the point of something like this is here's a framework for thought. Half cadence on II reinforcing the Lydian in a turnaround, who'da thunk.


This board is dead.

[Scoops]

@jancivil,

The Lydian scale came from the ancient Greeks. Do we have any recording of the how they implemented this? What was the intent? What emotional quality did they want to present? What do the ancient writings tell us?

I'm pretty sure they were just going for the sound of "lydian". It's unique unto iteslf.

Trying to quantize it into rock is an act of futility. Just go with the feeling!