Song structure and transitions

[arkmabat]

I know my way around various DAWs, what effects do what, basic synth programming, writing melodies, etc. but I'm ashamed to admit I've plateaued. This is a common sign before a growth spurt. I need help putting this all together into a cohesive song that flows well. I've heard that composing a track on top of another existing commercial one can help teach song structure about songs I enjoy. Is this a useful way to learn more about song structure or should I be more focused on learning textbook song structure? I appreciate any thoughts.

[funky lime]

maybe listen to lots of music and take lots of notes about it. sure you can copy a song's basic structure like that, but also keep in mind that structure doesn't exist in a vacuum—it's sort of like a framework in which you can develop the musical ideas at the core of the song. in a sense, structure and development go hand in hand. so it's not just about where to put the chorus, but also when/how/why(!) to make this chorus more or less intense/full/insert-adjective than the previous one, etc. so when i am listening and making a note about a song's structure, i might use dumb little descriptors like "superchorus" or "sparse verse" instead of just "verse - chorus - verse2 - chorus" to get a better sense of the "arc" of the song. but im weird

[lobanov]

First, start to listen music paying attention to form. How songs are structured? Don't listen to timbres, used effects, kicks and snares and all that shit, avoid paying attention to small details. Pay attention to form of a song.

Try to draw structures of different songs schematically. Invent your own signs to represent structure of a song visually. Letters, numbers, lines, rectangles, colors etc.

Pay attention to repetitions. How are they used? Are there different parts that alternate? How does every part change in next repetition? Or, may be, there is no repetition in a song?

Read something about musical form. Even classical. For example, Musical form. Such reading is very insightful.

Composing a track on top of another? Yes, it's possible. But I'd say no. The capability to "see" form of a song is more important. Form highly depends on harmonic and melodic material you have at your disposal. It's not always possible to "pack" your own harmonic or melodic material in a form of a different song.

[lobanov]

Instead of drawing structure on paper you may load any song or composition in DAW or in an audio editor and use markers, sticky notes (if available) etc. It will be almost the same thing as composing on top of this song. But without composing.

Avoid to analyze composition without paper or other tools, I mean in your mind only. Tools that allow to fix results of analysis helps enormously.

[arkmabat]

Thank you all very much. I'm excited to start working on this. Many of these ideas resonate with things I was attempting and considering trying. This helps me move forward.

[Benedict]

Did you look at the Effective Music series of videos I posted here in the music theory section?
viewtopic.php?p=8724410#p8724410

The key to it all is Variations. Not cloning etc, but being able to spin off variations of what you have to create the parts that The Song needs to tell its Story well.

[jaydog4]

load any song or composition in DAW or in an audio editor and use markers, sticky notes (if available) etc. It will be almost the same thing as composing on top of this song. But without composing.


You use marker tool in your daw and analyze when parts come ion and out . what kinda music do you wanna make?

I've got some basic songs you might be able to learn from

https://soundcloud.com/h0lms/

[arkmabat]

what kinda music do you wanna make?

I grew up on prog rock my father had, played heavy pop rock in high school on drums with a friend of mine who played guitar, and slowly transitioned to electronic tunes as I've aged. I'd like to be able to produce songs with an uplifting trance / happy hardcore feel. I listened to a lot of "Future Sound of Egypt" (Aly & Fila) the last decade and I'm currently going through the entire "Bonkers" (Sharkey & Hixxy) discography. Barring vocals, it's never been easier to obtain the tools necessary for these sort of genres. Now I need to start working and studying

[NeinKVR]

load any song or composition in DAW or in an audio editor and use markers, sticky notes (if available) etc. It will be almost the same thing as composing on top of this song. But without composing.


You use marker tool in your daw and analyze when parts come ion and out . what kinda music do you wanna make?

I've got some basic songs you might be able to learn from

https://soundcloud.com/h0lms/

This!