Zebralette 3 Modulation Section Discussion

[tasmaniandevil]

Let's talk about the modulation system here.

The main topic will be the MSEG section, how it works, how you like it, what you think might be missing.
But we can also talk about the other modulators and the mod matrix here.

If you find actual bugs, please report them in the Bug Report Thread.
If you want to watch the overview video or need to look something up in the user guide, you can find these resources in the Zebralette 3 Announcement Thread.

[Dalle]

Kinda wish the env attack could be slower, even at max it’s pretty quick and you need the MSEG for slow pads… Maybe a multiplier for the env, or ability to use constant in the mod matrix to extend attack range?

[Urs]

We're looking into this. A multiplier might be an option.

[pdxindy]

We're looking into this. A multiplier might be an option.

A multiplier would be confusing for most people. Can you use say the Hive Env?

In Hive, if the Attack is set to 100, it takes about 20 seconds to fade in fully.
In Zebralette 3 if Attack is set to 100 it's barely 3 seconds. 3 seconds is too short and there is no smooth fade in.

[pdxindy]

Fortunately, the Gain Expression in Bitwig works in Zebralette 3 so I can use a Note Grid and make a slow attack with a Gain Envelope!

[sekka]

Wanted to say this for many years, and maybe it is not too late: please make the actual value of the modulated parameter visible to avoid guessing what the hell modulation is doing!

I know the MMap trick for this in Zebra and use it regularly. But that's not because I like it so much, but rather that the modulation system itself is pretty diverse while not being visual enough for a streamline workflow. And the trick itself is not fast either.

Also it would be very useful to see that the parameter is being modulated (when there is no modulation field below it) without going to the matrix. Maybe its not that critical in modest Zebralette 3 but definetely more painful in Zebra.

Oh, and separate thanks for removing unnecessary knobs of modulation, making it Plugmon's skins alike, which is a great UI improvement, especially for the upcoming Zebra with its lot of modules and knobs!

[BlaBlubb2021]

Hey there, i hope there will be an indicator for the modulated parameter.
May be a moving dot in the white circlepart so you can see the position of the cycle ...
Hope that makes sense i See mentioned one post before ..

... and please give us more than 12 quantize steps in the mod matrix ....

[Urs]

Zebra will certainly have visualisation like Hive - i.e. some kind of oscilloscope that shows actual ModMatrix values, modulators and/or audio side by side, maybe spectrum even.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Here are some suggestions:

- Could be 12 mod matrix slots... This is the present age, you know. Zebralette really asks for lot of modulation. 6 slots are too little. I wouldn't cripple it, only because it is freeware.

Then I have some suggestions for the modulation system:

I think each knob should show every attached modulation, not only the direct one. Maybe multiple dots on mouse over. It seems to be kind of confusing to differentiate the direct slot from the mod matrix attached ones. Would be much more easy to understand modulation also, if everything was visible at once. I would even duplicate the direct slot in the mod matrix, and then of course provide more slots.
But maybe there simply is enough space for multiple dots in a column, next to each knob. There are already a lot of good examples for a better solution out there, I find U-He here a bit too conservative in this regard...

For example, in Avenger, you have one modulation dot, too, which you can also drag. But it is a popup menu at the same time, which lists all attached modulation. You can then switch the source via the menu for the dot. And you can also delete attached modulation via the menu. This makes it much more easy to handle modulation and also understand it:

Bildschirmfoto 2024-02-18 um 08.48.29.png

At least the used mod matrix slots could be highlighted on a mouse-over.

And why not allow unlimited mod matrix slots, via a plus button? This numbering of slots feels to me very oldschool, tbh. Doesn't really help at all, either. The numbering simply could be removed, and nothing would be lost. Esp. if there only is one page of slots.

Also other U-He plugins could benefit from such improvements, too.

[tasmaniandevil]

At least the used mod matrix slots could be highlighted on a mouse-over.

Right-click a parameter to get a menu that displays attached modulation sources and let's you remove them.

[sekka]

At least the used mod matrix slots could be highlighted on a mouse-over.

Right-click a parameter to get a menu that displays attached modulation sources and let's you remove them.

Yes, but you don't even know that there is modulation!

So the first quest is to find what is being modulated and by what. In Zebra it can be a direct modulator below the modulated parameter, modulation via Matrix and not that obvious stages of the Envelope and key/velo scale for osc volume/tuning. The next quest is to find what the modulation is doing. In Zebra it can modulate, scale and "never go outside modulated parameter's range" as per manual (which is not true in case of osc tuning and lane volumes). I am not familiar with Hive, but I see that there are even some additional modifiers of the modulation

You have to keep all that in mind which may be very time- and mind-resource consuming when you have many Zebra instances used in your track.

Meanwhile, a simple yet very effective solution exists and it is just a simple indicator over the modulated parameter. It may as well show what is happening with the modulation itself. No need for oscilloscopes, use the power of software UI!

And in order to make things even more clear, I would duplicate all existing modulations into the matrix for the ability to 100% find what you've missed on parameter's panel.

I understand this may cause implementation issues, but still think it is a worth investment.

With all my love to Zebra!

[blurk]

Not sure if this suggestion belongs in the MSEG section or in the spline editor section, but it would be nice if the MSEG vertical axis could (optionally) have a musical intervals grid. The first thing I tried was a random selection of presets and landed on Zorch UK which uses the MSEG as an arpeggiator. So I experiment with tweaking this preset, eventually looking at the MSEG and while at a fairly standard tempo can sort of visualise what is happening, I think given a lot of preset designers use the MSEG as ARP trick, why not make it easier for them?

[uhoenig]

Another suggestion for the MSEG: I think it would be great if there was an option to scan the envelope with a knob instead of triggering it. Like a lookup table.

[pdxindy]

Another suggestion for the MSEG: I think it would be great if there was an option to scan the envelope with a knob instead of triggering it. Like a lookup table.

Interesting idea!!

[pdxindy]

Not sure if this suggestion belongs in the MSEG section or in the spline editor section, but it would be nice if the MSEG vertical axis could (optionally) have a musical intervals grid. The first thing I tried was a random selection of presets and landed on Zorch UK which uses the MSEG as an arpeggiator. So I experiment with tweaking this preset, eventually looking at the MSEG and while at a fairly standard temp can sort of visualise what is happening, I think given a lot of preset designers use the MSEG as ARP trick, why not make it easier for them?

You can set the Y axis subdivisions to 12