Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[machinesworking]

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

If I want to do that in Live I press Command+F, type “hi” and double tap enter.

Has that always been there?

For years at least. I will say owning both, that both soft brained developers decided that presets and other choices besides VST should be on top half the time, which makes both of your instant thing, not a reality here. The routine is the same in both, with a slight advantage to Live.

In Bitwig if you haven't already selected the tracks, you have to do that, then 'b' works to pull up the pop up browser, then you generally have to use the arrow keys to navigate to the actual VST over the presets and loops it presents.

In Live anywhere you are you hit command f and it puts you in the search field, then you navigate past the presets and loops it presents to get to the VST / AU.

It's not every time, depends on how close the name of the plugin is to the presets and loops, but the fact that both developers decided that content is the priority over plugins is a PITA, and I haven't figured out any way to change the behavior in either DAW. I acknowledge this is a minor complaint compared to other DAWs having even more steps, but I would like control over the order that they present results.

Plugins are always listed as first results for me in Live

OK this is weird I have no idea what changed on my system but I recall having the same issue with both browsers in previous builds? I'm getting the plugin as the first result consistently in both DAWs.

The slight advantage still goes to Live in that it's one less step to call up a plugin since you do not have to have the tracks selected to do so.

[Yorrrrrr]

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

If I want to do that in Live I press Command+F, type “hi” and double tap enter.

Has that always been there?

At least as long as I’ve used Live since version 9. Coming from Logic one of my favorite features was how integrated and fast the browser was

Ableton Live is so freaking fast! Don't even need to reach for the mouse.

[pdxindy]

The slight advantage still goes to Live in that it's one less step to call up a plugin since you do not have to have the tracks selected to do so.

Then how is the plugin added to the track you want?

[SLiC]

Both can be pretty quick at finding a specific plugin, but if you want to use AI to find a 'similar' sample or pre-set then Live wins The just hit the '+' sign and its all in a new collection in your browser. Very simple and well thought out, zero learning curve. Also Live has amazing content as many have said, samples, racks instruments, fx etc- and its all comprehensively tagged.

I think a few people are expressing views that had experience with the older version of Live- I was also using Bitwig more before Live 12 (although 11 was pretty good), I think you need to spend a few hours with 12 to really make a good comparison....but that just for debating reasons- if you are totally with with what you have just stick with it- one thing is for sure, both DAWS are great and both DAWS are getting better every year.

[pdxindy]

Both can be pretty quick at finding a specific plugin, but if you want to use AI to find a 'similar' sample or pre-set then Live wins The just hit the '+' sign and its all in a new collection in your browser.

Does that work for plugin presets? or only Live devices?

[Trancit]

...
I think a few people are expressing views that had experience with the older version of Live- I was also using Bitwig more before Live 12 (although 11 was pretty good),...

I think this is the most important point...

Live has really upped the game with V12... now it´s on Bitwig to "react" ... if they even care any competition battle...

For me Live
- is definetely more refined ...no wonder as it had (idk) 13 years more to grow and a much bigger team (afaik)
- their new additions have really nailed it in taking Bitwigs temporary tools approach (hold key command+ click to action then let go to be back to previous state) one level higher...
- the midi editor is a million miles ahead in features and handling especially now with the new features but already before
- automation is a lot better in Live including VST3 features like edit automation points of 3rd party plugins with real values instead of percentage, range manipulation, predefined automation shapes and much more
- stock plugins deliver a much better sound/experience without much user interaction
- value handling in Live with selectable parameters and easy typing and incremental step up/down is again miles ahead of Bitwigs handling
- stock plugins have better/easier to use interfaces i.e. freaking easy to use bandpass filter for wet signal
- similarity search and better tagging
- M4L devices for really advanced stuff simply not possible in Bitwig
- Scale awareness will really up the game for Sequencers in future... such a logical thing... well implemented and I think we can expect to see much more from them in the near future...
It´s actually a wonder that nobody got the idea all these years... well done Abe´s... the innovation price for the next 10 years belong to you...

Nonetheless there is a whole lot of stuff Bitwig does better...

- better PDC
- better plugin hosting
- miles ahead in realtime Midi FX (apart from scale awareness though)
- miles ahead in rendering options
- parallel Scene launcher and arrangement is a little detail but much more handy than one might think
- miles ahead in modularity and modulation (of course) ... nested plugin chains were really a great idea...
- Inspector panel for many detail settings make much work easy-peasy
- Voice stacking is very very powerful
- multiple browsers!! I really hate to have just one browser for everything in Live... having at least 2 browsers, i.e. one for samples and one for plugins is for me much much easier to use than endless step forward/backward in the production process
- group clips
- better grouping in general i.e. with group clips, send FX per group and view focus on a group are really nice ideas.
- nice visuals and animations... I am a very "visual" guy, so I really appreciate to be able to see what´s going on
- more flexible track routing options with being easily able to create a "Listen" bus, devices which can grab the signal from anywhere in the whole project...etc...

I think both lists can be expanded nearly endlessly and one cannot go wrong with either programm... but it´s a big stretch to claim Ableton for the big winners now...
There is still a lot of important stuff Live loses big times against Bitwig and their developers not sleeping on a tree either...
I can imagine the next 2 updates can shift the balance back to at least the middle...

[SLiC]

Both can be pretty quick at finding a specific plugin, but if you want to use AI to find a 'similar' sample or pre-set then Live wins The just hit the '+' sign and its all in a new collection in your browser.

Does that work for plugin presets? or only Live devices?

Just Live devices for now, but there are over 30 instruments plus about 40 packs- many thousands of pre-sets, so its a great help. All the Live instruments and packs have sound preview as well, so its probably using those just like samples. It also works on all the 3rd party packs like sample logic and spitfire audio, it would be cool if the could use NKS files to find similar sounds as well...but its a good start (and it is so useful I am pretty ds=sure another DAWS will follow, but given the amount of content with Live, it makes sense they went first)

[Yorrrrrr]

Lists of advantages could be in favor of one or the other, but between both, in the end it's Ableton Live the tool that most people rely for music production, live performances and pro work, while Bitwig is still a minority, a niche, mainly for sound design and tinkering. Still has a long way to go, not only when compared to Live, also other more established DAWs.

[pdxindy]

in the end it's Ableton Live the tool that most people rely in real music production and work, while Bitwig is still a minority, a niche, mainly for sound design and tinkering.

Lots of people do real music production and work in Bitwig. And no, it is not just for tinkering...

[Yorrrrrr]

But nowhere near the amount of producers and musicians using Ableton Live. Not even close, not in the same league. And that’s why I said “mainly”.

[mholloway]

Oh no, we all better do exactly what the Real Musicians and Real Producers are doing!!

[Yorrrrrr]

Sorry, it’s not a correct word. Only that Bitwig is not super popular tool. But it’s a good one regardless.

[machinesworking]

Sorry, it’s not a correct word. Only that Bitwig is not super popular tool. But it’s a good one regardless.

Do you only listen to the most popular bands? eat at the largest chain restaurants etc. etc?? what a ridiculous argument.

[Yorrrrrr]

Yes. Sometimes those restaurants or bands are also the best ones. They're very popular for a reason.

[machinesworking]

Yes. Sometimes those restaurants or bands are also the best ones. They're very popular for a reason.

McDonalds is the best food to you then, Coke is the best soft drink..
Your opinion isn't an opinion, it's a lack of character in human form.