Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[Yorrrrrr]

No, those are crap. I like them as much as Bitwig. That is my opinion.

[mholloway]

Sorry, it’s not a correct word. Only that Bitwig is not super popular tool. But it’s a good one regardless.

What are you apologizing for? After all, you're the only person here who seems very worried about what is 'super popular' or not.

The rest of us use tools because they appeal to our own particular workflow needs and desires, not because so-called "real musicians" and "real producers" use them. And certainly not because we heard they are "super popular."

[SLiC]

There are some advantages to Ableton being so dominant in terms of a user base (popularity if you like); a lot of 3rd party and dedicated hardware support (from the vendors, not users), financial stability, future investment, books and videos for learning, 3rd party instruments and packs, large user base for collaboration etc. Bitwig feels more ‘underground’ but that doesn’t affect its use, as a modular user I quite like the boutique and quirky stuff and that’s IK with me…running Bitwig on Linux for example is not exactly mainstream, but neither is making music on a Modular!

[Trensharo]

Live has better FX, Synths and Max 4 Live - which has a decent ecosystem behind it (similar to Reaktor User Library).

But Bitwig is cheaper. A lot cheaper - though Live Standard is very affordable if you don't want or need the extras. IMO, the In-the-Box workflow is the main reason why I'd consider either of these DAWS. It also runs on Linux, for the dozens of people who want that.

Another benefit of Live is that more controllers support it OOTB (plug-and-play, basically faultless integration and fader/knob takeover, etc.) and there are a lot of grooveboxes, etc. that support Exporting to Ableton Live Sets (MPC 2, for example). However, Bitwig will work OOTB with things like Maschine MK3/Plus/Mikro Controllers. Not as plug-and-play with Live on that end...

Relative Popularity is ignorable at this point because both Bitwig has a ton of educational resources available for it on YouTube and other sites, and very in depth videos that cover almost every aspect of that DAW.

This applies to most DAWs o the market that haven't [almost] totally fallen off.

Live, Bitwig, FL Studio, Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools, Maschine, MPC, Reason, Studio One, REAPER, Sonar, Waveform, etc.

All of these DAWs have gotten so much coverage - and continue to get a lot - that many creators are resorting to "remixing" old content to have a content to throw up and continue monetizing their channels.

I think someone who already owns plug-ins and synths can probably save money and safely go with Bitwig Studio, or simply settle for Live Standard. For someone starting from scratch, Live Suite is a far more compelling package - IMVHO.

UI Preferences are personally. I do prefer Live's more monochromatic look. Some people will prefer the colorful UI of Bitwig Studio.

I do think Bitwig's workspace flexibility is a point in its favor, though. It accommodates layouts that are impossible to replicate in Live.

[Trancit]

And don´t forget that Ableton is mostly more popular because of a 14 years time "advantage"...

14 years there was not really an alternative to Ableton for people wanting to use such kind of a DAW and it´s much easier to keep a huge user base because of an already existing huge popularity than coming into a dominated market and build up a huge user base from nothing with an established big and popular competitor in your neck...

If you regard it from this side it´s actually astonishing what the Bitwigs have already achieved.

Ableton is for sure not more popular because it would be so much better... it benefits from "ancient" times...
If both would have started at the same time we would see a complete different picture and the Abes would have much tougher times.

[revvy]

Yeah, but both starting at the same time would be tricky as the Bit devs first developed Live and then took their code and experience with them.

Bit had to come after Live. Maybe Dom (?) and co’s second project was better than their first, but it certainly grew out of it.

[SLiC]

If both would have started at the same time we would see a complete different picture and the Abes would have much tougher times.

If both would have started at the same time Bitwig would have had nothing to copy

Bitwig have been growing for 10 years now, I think if a lot of people were going to switch thy would have done it by now...Live offers a lot of reason to stay with it (especially if you already know it well) so its not an easy sell at all.

[muzicxs]

Lists of advantages could be in favor of one or the other, but between both, in the end it's Ableton Live the tool that most people rely in real music production, live performances and pro work while Bitwig is still a minority, a niche, mainly for sound design and tinkering. Still has a long way to go, not only when compared to Live, also other more established DAWs.

Your arguments contain at least 4 fallacies in just 2 sentences...

• Appeal to popularity: You argue that because Ableton Live is more widely used, it is superior to Bitwig. However, popularity does not necessarily equate to quality or suitability for all users.
• Hasty generalization: You generalize that Bitwig is mainly for sound design and tinkering based on limited information or personal opinion, without providing sufficient evidence to support this claim.
• False dichotomy: You present Ableton Live and Bitwig as mutually exclusive options, implying that one must be superior to the other. In reality, both DAWs may have their strengths and weaknesses, and the choice between them depends on individual needs and preferences.
• No true Scotsman: You imply that "real music production, live performances, and pro work" are only associated with Ableton Live and other established DAWs. By doing so, you dismiss the possibility that Bitwig can be used effectively for these purposes, essentially moving the goalposts to maintain your argument's validity.

[Harry_HH]

BTW - has Ableton fixed the absence of ”load preset or bank) button of Vst3 plugins in the Live 11/Win for the Live 12?

[SLiC]

BTW - has Ableton fixed the absence of ”load preset or bank) button of Vst3 plugins in the Live 11/Win for the Live 12?

I have no idea what this is or why you need it? (I have Bitwig and Live)

[chk071]

Lists of advantages could be in favor of one or the other, but between both, in the end it's Ableton Live the tool that most people rely in real music production, live performances and pro work while Bitwig is still a minority, a niche, mainly for sound design and tinkering. Still has a long way to go, not only when compared to Live, also other more established DAWs.

Your arguments contain at least 4 fallacies in just 2 sentences...

Or it is just your assumption that they do.

I haven't really read much into it, apart from saying that Live is popular for a reason. And, I agree with that. Most professional software is popular for a reason.

[chk071]

It's funny, by the way. The OP created this thread in December last year, and probably got his question answered (whatever it was) weeks if not months ago, and still, this thread creates discussion and discussion. Because it's yet another "this vs. that" topic, where people get so angry and so easily offended when you say that this has an advantage over that.

The OP doesn't seem to have any more interest in this thread. I haven't seen any reply from him from the last 2 months. Of course, that shouldn't hold off anyone from bashing someone else's head in, because that someone dared to insult the other person's DAW.

[Harry_HH]

BTW - has Ableton fixed the absence of ”load preset or bank) button of Vst3 plugins in the Live 11/Win for the Live 12?

I have no idea what this is or why you need it? (I have Bitwig and Live)

You have no idea why I need to load presets? Really? I use presets all the time.

[muzicxs]

Or it is just your assumption that they do.

What's my assumption here exactly?

[Trancit]

If both would have started at the same time we would see a complete different picture and the Abes would have much tougher times.

If both would have started at the same time Bitwig would have had nothing to copy

...

Yes Bitwig is by large amounts a copycat DAW... but nowadays it´s something unevitable, isn´t it??
Let´s say Bitwig would have started a year after before Ableton has grown that much... there was already something to copy ( ) but still time to catch up...

I remember very well that there was a lot of confusion when Ableton came out that many people didn´t really know how it was working because of being so different to what was known until then...
There were tons over tons of tutorials in Music magazines at this time to bring this closer to the audience...
So Ableton´s start was at least a bit bumpy and that would have given the Bitwigs enough time to come up with something ...

Anyway... I think Bitwig can be proud of what they have reached always having in mind that they had 14 less to finetune the programm... and Ableton are still suffering from old code flaws with less stability, worse PDC and a complete broken HDPi engine for 3rd party plugins...