Sample Robot and Reverb...

[QualityJunky888]

Hello .

So, I recently purchased a Korg Kronos and found out that there is massive SSD storage space.

That being said, there is one patch in particular I want from Keyscape Creative - a free library Spectrasonics gives you if you own Omnisphere and Keyscape - called 'Black Hole Rhodes'.

It is a rhodes, with modulation, and a massive reverb that has a long.

A friend of mine tried sampling it, but it didn't sound much like the original patch and you could barely hear the reverb. I've been told to add reverb afterward, because time-based effects are hard to sample, and each key will start up another instance of that reverb.

Well, the particular reverb on that patch, I can't find anywhere - and the reverB 'makes' the patch.

Any idea of Sample Robot can sample a patch with a massive reverb, and a long tail, and have it sound like the original patch?

[whyterabbyt]

I've been told to add reverb afterward, because time-based effects are hard to sample

Well, they're not hard to sample, any more than any audio source is harder to sample than any other, but what you'd be getting is a specific 'baked in' instance of that effect that will always be fixed, and that's not necessarily what you want of a time-based effect.

So, for example, you can quite easily sample something where there's an intrinsic 250ms delay included, but you could never adjust that delay to match the bpm of your track or whatever.

, and each key will start up another instance of that reverb.

Each key would play a sample with that reverb baked in, if that's what you mean.

Any idea of Sample Robot can sample a patch with a massive reverb, and a long tail,

There's no intrinsic reason why not, although there's also no intrinsic reason your friend managed to not succeed properly in the first place.
If you sample something post-effects, your samples will have those effects baked in. Sampling is just recording, and it'd be a pretty weird thing if audio recording somehow couldnt capture effects processing properly.
Assuming that's the ideal thing to do of course, and it may not be.

and have it sound like the original patch?

A polyphony of reverb'd samples can sound different from a polyphony of samples through a single reverb. In the latter, there's no interaction on the mix of the signals, though.
Back to that echo example, the realtime echo effect would be a repeat of the mix of multiple notes, at 250ms. If that echo was baked into the samples, though, then each note will have their own individual repeats at 250ms, and they'll be offset from each other dependent on when the notes were replaced.

[QualityJunky888]

Can anyone explain why Omnisphere won't load into SampleRobot 6. It says it is not a VST2, but IT IS.

I'm very confused.

[musicartist99]

How about doing it manually, without Sample Robot ?

[QualityJunky888]

Update.

The patch that I was most concerned about, SampleRobot was able to sample it to perfection. I'm extremely impressed.

The issue is, it was recorded with 4 different velocities and it was mapped across the keyboard. How would you set it up for one program in the Korg Kronos? It's basically all of the sample keys, in four different velocities. So, instead of it being one patch/program, it's a ton of different files.

Anyone know how to fix this?

[Uncle E]

SampleRobot exports to Kronos's file format. Did you do that? If not, what sample format did you create?

ConvertWithMoss might help:

https://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Con ... hMoss.html

[QualityJunky888]

I'm trying to sample a patch, to be loaded into the Kronos, in SampleRobot. I sample it with multiple velocity layers, but it's only one velocity once saved as a program to the Kronos. Obviously if SampleRobot allows you to sample with multiple velocity layers, it's supposed to play that way in the Kronos. Any suggestions?

[JeffLearman]

I've been told to add reverb afterward, because time-based effects are hard to sample

Well, they're not hard to sample, any more than any audio source is harder to sample than any other, but what you'd be getting is a specific 'baked in' instance of that effect that will always be fixed, and that's not necessarily what you want of a time-based effect.

Baked in reverb just doesn't act like a reverb plugin, due to each note stopping or decaying on the MIDI note-off message. So, while you're right that you can sample a patch with reverb, it just won't ever be remotely the same thing.

So, it's not "hard to," it's just "useless to" try to sample reverb.

The way to "sample" a reverb is to have JUST the reverb and feed it a pulse input, record the result, and use that as the kernel (a.k.a. "impulse file") with a convolution plugin. If you can't do that, then the best alternative is what you're trying to do here, which is hope someone recognizes it or knows what sort of reverb is used on the original. Good luck!

Well of course the other alternative is to try a lot of reverbs until you get close enough.

[JeffLearman]

I learned this the hard way in reverse: the first time I sampled a digital piano I forgot to turn the reverb off, so it always sounded a bit off, with the reverb baked in but not behaving the way a reverb should. Ugh! Lesson learned.

[JeffLearman]

I'm trying to sample a patch, to be loaded into the Kronos, in SampleRobot. I sample it with multiple velocity layers, but it's only one velocity once saved as a program to the Kronos. Obviously if SampleRobot allows you to sample with multiple velocity layers, it's supposed to play that way in the Kronos. Any suggestions?

I suggest you delete this post and start a new question with an appropriate title and you'll be likely to get more attention from people who understand that issue, which is unrelated to the first issue.

[whyterabbyt]

Baked in reverb just doesn't act like a reverb plugin, due to each note stopping or decaying on the MIDI note-off message. So, while you're right that you can sample a patch with reverb, it just won't ever be remotely the same thing.

yes, i know.

So, it's not "hard to," it's just "useless to" try to sample reverb.

assuming you mean 'baked in reverb' like we're actually talking about, then no, not necessarily.

The way to "sample" a reverb is to have JUST the reverb and feed it a pulse input, record the result, and use that as the kernel (a.k.a. "impulse file") with a convolution plugin. If you can't do that, then the best alternative is what you're trying to do here, which is hope someone recognizes it or knows what sort of reverb is used on the original.

Yes I know. But noone is asking about sampling the reverb, they're trying to sample a synth preset that has reverb as a constutient part of the preset.

[Uncle E]

The way to "sample" a reverb is to have JUST the reverb and feed it a pulse input, record the result, and use that as the kernel (a.k.a. "impulse file") with a convolution plugin.

True but, AFAIK, the Kronos can't load IR's. I told OP in a PM to set Release to the length of the reverb decay (I should have also mentioned setting Sustain to 100%). His trouble now is he's not able to get the velocity layers to be recognized by the Kronos.

[QualityJunky888]

The way to "sample" a reverb is to have JUST the reverb and feed it a pulse input, record the result, and use that as the kernel (a.k.a. "impulse file") with a convolution plugin.

True but, AFAIK, the Kronos can't load IR's. I told OP in a PM to set Release to the length of the reverb decay (I should have also mentioned setting Sustain to 100%). His trouble now is he's not able to get the velocity layers to be recognized by the Kronos.

Believe it or not, I got ALL issues resolved.

For the velocity layers to be recognized in the Kronos, I had to save the file in Sample Robot as a .SF2(Sound Font 2). Inside the Kronos, I had to sent the release and slope to 99, and it plays and sounds like the original patch in Keyscape/Omni.

The fun can now begin.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in and answered my PMs!