Reason 13 Announced- Sequencer updated!
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Artie Fichelle Artie Fichelle https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=49629
- KVRist
- 219 posts since 28 Nov, 2004
1. Reason has very good instruments, to name only friktion, algorithm, etc. And it has good Players.
2. To edit in Reason is not fun, here they should work on.
3. As an example algorithm is able to make the best sounding brass stuff, better than all contenders, but OPX 7 is much better in strings.
2. To edit in Reason is not fun, here they should work on.
3. As an example algorithm is able to make the best sounding brass stuff, better than all contenders, but OPX 7 is much better in strings.
artie fichelle sounds natural
- KVRAF
- 23594 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
Personally I have no say on the matter itself right now as I didn't do any respective testing myself yet.kmonkey wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 9:23 amYet I can run the same count of instruments in Reason 12 as I can in Cubase or Live.jens wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:33 am If I am not completely misunderstanding him I think his point is that he stumbled upon indicators that appear to show that Reason's GUI code is rather inefficient and thus uses
quite a few CPU cycles instead of being processed mainly on the GPU - which seems like quite a fair point to me.
This is an indicator that no matter how effective or ineffective Reason's GUI code is - somehow by some stroke of a miracle it behaves exactly as every other DAW. Which seems like a point does it?
How do you explain it then? Please not a gotcha question, how?
I merely said that I consider his point a fair one - I didn't say his findings are accurate, valid, final, extensive or even exhaustive. But may this be as it may be: I certainly think that this absolutely can be discussed/analyzed in a civilized manner without any requirement whatsoever of stooping down to attacks and generally hostile/agressive behaviour.
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.
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- KVRAF
- 2963 posts since 23 Dec, 2002
This isn’t a pile on just an observation. Reason can’t see or use all the cores (performance cores only) on my Apple Silicon machines. It can’t see the hyper threaded cores on my 56 core dual socket x99 workstation rig or the SMT equivalent on my Ryzen 5950x rig. I can’t see how you can get the same track counts as other daws which can use more cores namely Cubase and Logic.And it does matter with some plugins which can scale well across all cores regardless of logical, virtual or efficiency type. This is independent of the graphics engine which is running exclusively on a logical core.
My Reason projects tend to be smaller and I rarely miss the efficiency of Logic or Cubase when making noises in Reason. I agree with others that further refining the editing should be the priority. I’m looking forward to this update. Hopefully we’ll see some steady development in that area over the coming months.
My Reason projects tend to be smaller and I rarely miss the efficiency of Logic or Cubase when making noises in Reason. I agree with others that further refining the editing should be the priority. I’m looking forward to this update. Hopefully we’ll see some steady development in that area over the coming months.
- KVRist
- 415 posts since 23 Apr, 2006 from Berlin
I would very much like to have a civilized conversation. You say I came out as aggressive and I apologize if that's the case but it's hard to have any civilized conversation with you when you insult people every other post.jens wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 10:05 amPersonally I have no say on the matter itself right now as I didn't do any respective testing myself yet.kmonkey wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 9:23 amYet I can run the same count of instruments in Reason 12 as I can in Cubase or Live.jens wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:33 am If I am not completely misunderstanding him I think his point is that he stumbled upon indicators that appear to show that Reason's GUI code is rather inefficient and thus uses
quite a few CPU cycles instead of being processed mainly on the GPU - which seems like quite a fair point to me.
This is an indicator that no matter how effective or ineffective Reason's GUI code is - somehow by some stroke of a miracle it behaves exactly as every other DAW. Which seems like a point does it?
How do you explain it then? Please not a gotcha question, how?
I merely said that I consider his point a fair one - I didn't say his findings are accurate, valid, final, extensive or even exhaustive. But may this be as it may be: I certainly think that this absolutely can be discussed/analyzed in a civilized manner without any requirement whatsoever of stooping down to attacks and generally hostile/agressive behaviour.
Last edited by spacepluk on Tue May 21, 2024 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRist
- 415 posts since 23 Apr, 2006 from Berlin
I think generally Logic/Cubase will always end on top when comparing track counts at lower buffer settings. And it's because they use a hybrid buffer and run most of the stuff on the larger one.Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 10:23 am This isn’t a pile on just an observation. Reason can’t see or use all the cores (performance cores only) on my Apple Silicon machines. It can’t see the hyper threaded cores on my 56 core dual socket x99 workstation rig or the SMT equivalent on my Ryzen 5950x rig. I can’t see how you can get the same track counts as other daws which can use more cores namely Cubase and Logic.And it does matter with some plugins which can scale well across all cores regardless of logical, virtual or efficiency type. This is independent of the graphics engine which is running exclusively on a logical core.
My Reason projects tend to be smaller and I rarely miss the efficiency of Logic or Cubase when making noises in Reason. I agree with others that further refining the editing should be the priority. I’m looking forward to this update. Hopefully we’ll see some steady development in that area over the coming months.
That has advantages and disadvantages and if you compare to other DAWs that are more "realtime" focused like Ableton, Pro Tools, etc. I think the performance is very comparable between all of them.
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- KVRAF
- 2963 posts since 23 Dec, 2002
That makes sense. I didn’t test Live and Bitwig against Cubase or Logic. I assumed they wouldn’t do as well.
One thing that surprised me with my older dual socket x99 is it performed very close to a Macintosh Ultra 2023 running the same Reason only projects ( no VST plugins) Reason appears to leaves a lot of CPU potential untapped on Apple Silicon.
One thing that surprised me with my older dual socket x99 is it performed very close to a Macintosh Ultra 2023 running the same Reason only projects ( no VST plugins) Reason appears to leaves a lot of CPU potential untapped on Apple Silicon.
spacepluk wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:00 am
I think generally Logic/Cubase will always end on top when comparing track counts at lower buffer settings. And it's because they use a hybrid buffer and run most of the stuff on the larger one.
That has advantages and disadvantages and if you compare to other DAWs that are more "realtime" focused like Ableton, Pro Tools, etc. I think the performance is very comparable between all of them.
- KVRist
- 415 posts since 23 Apr, 2006 from Berlin
Is that using an up-to-date Reason 12? Could it be that you're running it in Rosetta mode?Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:46 am That makes sense. I didn’t test Live and Bitwig against Cubase or Logic. I assumed they wouldn’t do as well.
One thing that surprised me with my older dual socket x99 is it performed very close to a Macintosh Ultra 2023 running the same Reason only projects ( no VST plugins) Reason appears to leaves a lot of CPU potential untapped on Apple Silicon.
I've never heard of that but also I haven't measured or felt the need to... So far it's working smoothly on my M1 Max.
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- KVRist
- 288 posts since 17 Jun, 2012 from East Coast US
Just tested the latest version of Reason 12 on a 2018 HP laptop with 10 series intel i7 processor and its running really smoothly on this one as well. I just installed the latest version of Bitwig (5.2) to see how it compared and my CPU with the same plugins makes the DSP meter go wild. Studio one 6.6 isnt quite as bad as Bitwig on this laptop but certainly uses more than Reason 12. This laptop has Iris Pro Graphics embedded for what its worth.
Windows 10 PC. Reason. Cubase. Waveform. Reaper. Studio One Pro. Epiphone Les Paul Pro II. Nektar Panorama t4. Yamaha RBX Bass. Faderport 2. Eris E5 Monitors. SSL2 Interface. Audient Evo 4. AKG C214. Aston Origin. MXL 990.
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- KVRAF
- 2963 posts since 23 Dec, 2002
Yes the Ultra was running the latest Reason and it wasn’t in Rosetta mode. The ultra has fewer useable cores as far as Reason is concerned than my Dual Socket X99 , on this Rig, Reason can use all 28 logical cores, it can’t see all the additional hyper threaded cores it maxes out at 32 cores. On the Ultra it doesn’t see the efficiency cores. The performance is not sluggish. I just am just noting that Reason on Mac Silicon has less headroom than you would expect given the newer architecture. The Ultra does outperform this computer on identical Cubase projects . Tests were done at the same buffer settings but different audio interfaces as I use pcie based RME Raydat cards on the PC side and a 3rd Gen Focusrite interfaces on the Ultra. That could account for some differences as the RAYDAT is one of the most efficient audio cards available. Regardless Cubase did perform noticeably better on the Ultra, Where as Reason was only marginally more performant and I am being generous.
spacepluk wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:58 amIs that using an up-to-date Reason 12? Could it be that you're running it in Rosetta mode?Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:46 am That makes sense. I didn’t test Live and Bitwig against Cubase or Logic. I assumed they wouldn’t do as well.
One thing that surprised me with my older dual socket x99 is it performed very close to a Macintosh Ultra 2023 running the same Reason only projects ( no VST plugins) Reason appears to leaves a lot of CPU potential untapped on Apple Silicon.
I've never heard of that but also I haven't measured or felt the need to... So far it's working smoothly on my M1 Max.
Last edited by Scotty on Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
- KVRist
- 415 posts since 23 Apr, 2006 from Berlin
That makes sense, thanks for the details!Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:14 pm Yes the Ultra was running the latest Reason and it wasn’t in Rosetta mode. The ultra has fewer useable cores as far as Reason is concerned than my Dual Socket X99 , on this Rig, Reason can use all 28 logical cores, it can’t see the additional hyper threaded cores. On the Ultra it doesn’t see the efficiency cores. The performance is not sluggish. I just am just noting that Reason on Mac Silicon has less headroom than you would expect given the newer architecture. The Ultra does outperform this computer on identical Cubase projects . Tests were done at the same buffer settings but different audio interfaces as I use pcie based RME Raydat cards on the PC side and a 3rd Gen Focusrite interfaces on the Ultra. That could account for some differences as the RAYDAT is one of the most efficient audio cards available. Regardless Cubase did perform noticeably better on the Ultra, Where a Reason was only marginally more performant and I am being generous.
spacepluk wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:58 amIs that using an up-to-date Reason 12? Could it be that you're running it in Rosetta mode?Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:46 am That makes sense. I didn’t test Live and Bitwig against Cubase or Logic. I assumed they wouldn’t do as well.
One thing that surprised me with my older dual socket x99 is it performed very close to a Macintosh Ultra 2023 running the same Reason only projects ( no VST plugins) Reason appears to leaves a lot of CPU potential untapped on Apple Silicon.
I've never heard of that but also I haven't measured or felt the need to... So far it's working smoothly on my M1 Max.
- KVRist
- 415 posts since 23 Apr, 2006 from Berlin
I was thinking about this and depending on the buffer settings you used in your tests the difference in performance might be caused by ASIO Guard’s hybrid buffer.
A fair comparison would require using the maximum buffer size on both DAWs or disabling ASIO Guard, and I think you wouldn’t see much of a difference in that case.
This only tells you if the raw performance is comparable or not. In practice having the hybrid buffer is very useful, hehe
A fair comparison would require using the maximum buffer size on both DAWs or disabling ASIO Guard, and I think you wouldn’t see much of a difference in that case.
This only tells you if the raw performance is comparable or not. In practice having the hybrid buffer is very useful, hehe
- KVRAF
- 3254 posts since 3 Jul, 2022
Sorry if I missed a news but any indication of an upgrade price from v12 (if not bought recently).
I guess no discount for RRP users ?
I guess no discount for RRP users ?
- KVRist
- 415 posts since 23 Apr, 2006 from Berlin
I haven't seen anything. People say that it will probably be the usual upgrade price unless there's an intro price offer or something.