KVR Audio

x_bruce · Post by **x_bruce** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:25 am

I'm glad OASYS is finally going to be a synth. I suspect it will have lots of technology sitting in our houses in 3 - 5 years while only the take-no-prisoner Prosumers or reasonably paid artists will be paying for it.

I hope your new virtual synth technology is good because I never understood why you dropped the Z1 and Prophecy. In fact, of all your synths, that's the only hardware synth I'd like to see remade. It was innovative, sounded great and reminded me why I liked your company. I didn't like the Z1 as much but that was because in a large 12 note polyphonic version of what was in the Prophecy and then some you managed to make the worst interface in the history of interfaces, though I did enjoy the x/y pad.

Now you come out with Karma 2. Is it going to be upgradable from those of us that supported the Karma instrument and still have to explain to trolls why it isn't a arranger synth looked down upon with scorn.

A friend of mine helped me see a bit of my past come back to me in the form of a Karma with the MOSS board inside. Congratulations on getting the interface a bit better on the 6 note board. Ever going to make another Virtual Synth that won't cost $7000 or be available in a 1995 style crippled form that isn't multitimbral nor able to be fully Karmaized?

You lost me on the toy keyboard that patches a few sections though the software you sold (packaged) could have easily done it? And do we really think people will play 3/4 scale keys live? I have slender fingers and can't play that thing, nor did I want an old analog or less old digilog tacked on to the Wavestation which you didn't bother to update to 1990 standards, let alone 2005 standards. But you sell a $400 mini-key synth with a decent sound engine, and a controller that's similarly useless due to it's size but does have your name and not Kaysound or some other generic keybed name that costs a quarter of your keybed, does the same thing and has the same features...for $100 to $200.

Would the real Korg please stand up?

I want to like you guys. I loved the Wavestation, but your virtual just has the soundset as value and honestly, a new company's first offering is what OASYS sounds like it will have but they managed to squeeze their price down to $100. Guess they don't have the overhead and sample library to make their Wusikstation expensive enough to compete with your virtual Wavestation...oops, they have fantastic samples available for the instrument as well as another companies synth.

Sell me the MS2000 with 32 notes of polyphony, the sequencer can be updated to up to 64 steps by 4 parametiers; hmm, another young software company is selling a synth called Kubik that does this and has a stronger synthesis engine and vastly better programability.

Gee, it must be the expensive components on the MS2000, err...what's that cost, $100? Let's see, the VA technology is over 10 years old and is actually emasculated from it's similarly old MOSS board brother, and the build is a bit cheesy, not in the good way either. But I'll give you this, it sounds ok. Not as good as a $100 software synth that has been built in 2004 or 2005, but then you haven't probably made back your money yet on that old technology, but hmm, you don't use the full extent of the technology, just some analog stuff that's good enough sounding, just insultingly expensive compared to your competitors from Germany and Great Britan. Hell, even the U.S. is making a better $700 synth than you are with Alesis' Ion, and I'm critical of that synth!

Well, I do enjoy the Karma w/MOSS board. When I made money in music I even was willing to buy the Karma when it was $1600 when first released, and sent back due to bad electronics. The used one is pretty nice now, congratulations! I do feel sorry that my friend dropped something like $2100 between the MOSS board and Karma. And really, I like the MOSS board. It's not terribly powerful by todays standards but it is a sound (in terms of quality) synth. However, don't you think it's time to sell the Karma for $1000 street price? And how about Triton LE's for $800? After all, the LE isn't much more than a Karma with better quality keybed and capability to sample for $300 more.

In other words, give me some reason to love your company again. I want to. I have great memories of your products. I've had an M1, 01/w, Wavestation EX, Wavestation SR, Prophecy, Z1, Trinity, a few older analogs, Poly 800, DW8000, DWG sampler, MS2000R, Electribe A, R and S, Kaoss Pads and of course the Karma which broke my heart having to sell and the reason why I had to sell it.

Gee, that's a lot of support from me. Now I was a working musician so part of it was tools I used and also because your name was important when you made serious products. Of course, you've always been way more expensive than others. So you'll pardon my little outburst here and my dismay at a $499 price for a trio of classic synths and real patchbay Keyboard when all I wanted was a $200 - 250 street priced Wavestation 1.5 that had updated filters, resonance with those filters and a decently written manual. So you lost out on my $200 and have made me really concerned whether you are serious with your $700 priced ultra-electribes, $800 MS2000 synths that might crack if you look at them funny.

Did I mention how much money I payed to buy your equipment never to see you give me a break when lots of money wasn't available for a decent musical instrument.

BTW, could you please just sell out the X5D at blow out prices and not embarrass your name by selling the cheapest and oldest quality Korg synth with non-aftertouch capable keybed at discount prices that are $50 more than the better equipped Alesis QS6.2?

You almost make me sorry I already can't stand Ronald (don't want them to sue me again so I played a bit with the name).

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:45 am

x_bruce wrote:all I wanted was a $200 - 250 street priced Wavestation 1.5 that had updated filters, resonance with those filters and a decently written manual.

Ditto.When I heard about the new upcoming Oasys I though maybe they headed toward the future with new synth technology that ran off a card integrated into a PC/Mac,but I can only look at the reality of what their offering(new Oasys) as a giant dinosaur egg.

FaX · Post by **FaX** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:21 am

Alan wrote:
x_bruce wrote:all I wanted was a $200 - 250 street priced Wavestation 1.5 that had updated filters, resonance with those filters and a decently written manual.
Ditto.When I heard about the new upcoming Oasys I though maybe they headed toward the future with new synth technology that ran off a card integrated into a PC/Mac,but I can only look at the reality of what their offering(new Oasys) as a giant dinosaur egg.

*SIGHS* - it sounds like my lost lament over Yamaha two years ago (really started putting me off hardware) especially when.....

A)products get dropped and superceded so quickly
B)aren't properly supported... OR

C)you buy a product and the company goes bust ala Waldorf / Redsound / Kwai no longer doing synths after getting a K5000S rack etc etc etc ....

And after being in an in and out of hospital hell for 2 years (and a huge creative spell dry out because of it) I ditched the lot for a laptop.

At least now if I'm in for treatment I can have my music with me. It makes a huge difference.
(sorry got of on a tangent there)

.

KTS · Post by **KTS** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:08 pm

yeah, Korg is history......had a lot of their products over the years as well and the Karma was the last thing i'll ever buy from these dickwads.....

AndrewW · Post by **AndrewW** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:28 pm

The last Korg I had was the Triton. I sold it cause it was sitting in the case and not doing nothing. So I sold it. When the time when I needed a keyboard, I got Yamaha ES. I'm much happier with this synth. I use it more than Triton, and I'm happier with the sounds.

If I had $8000, I would prefer to go with a new computer, nice keyboard Controller and bunch of nice software. I would not get new OASYS. For me this instrument is rediculous, aspecially the price. If I would want an OASYS I would pay at the most $3000, but not a cent more.

One good move that KORG did was in releasing the Legacy Collection, but I wish they released a version without the silly controller. The price is pretty high for a VSTi too. Oh well, no KORG VSTis for me, but there are soo many options out there. It's unbelievable.

dahwoud · Post by **dahwoud** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:40 pm

Sure that Korg Legacy Collection V2 will be announced at Frankfurt music mess ...

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:14 pm

dear x-bruce,

we only wanted your money, let's be honest.

sorry about the mess,

subcommander GROK, space corps.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:32 pm

You could level this rant at lots of hardware companies. i feel the same about Roland. They produced some of the most innovative stuff around (some not appreciated till later admittedly) and even kicked-started some genres (808,909 and 303).

i have loads of Roland stuff i still use, from my very first synth, the small but loveable SH-09 - CR-78, RE-501 Space Echo, DC-50 Digital Chorus, MC-202, R-8M, JD-800 & 990 plus loads of Boss effects pedals.

After the 990 i haven't seen a Roland product worth buying. The JP-8000 looked interesting but wasn't all that, so too the V-Synth. Where's all the quirky Japanese mentallity gone?

Looking for the day when i feel compelled to buy a Roland piece of kit again

Mr A

CypherOne · Post by **CypherOne** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:33 pm

xoxos wrote:dear x-bruce,

we only wanted your money, let's be honest.

sorry about the mess,

subcommander GROK, space corps.

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:56 pm

Its funny how hardware companies are trying to build computers when what hardware owners really want is hardware. Why should I buy a synth that has an Intel, AMD or motorola procesor, when my PC has a perfectly good one?!?! I would buy an analog synth because it is a real analog synth. I cant see much reason for buying a softsynth with its own keyboard... I dont want to buy a "digitally modelled" space echo efx processor, I want a real tape echo. I know that hardware companies went digital to solve the problems with analog(but mainly because code is cheaper mechanical parts). but they are less becoming hardware companies and more becoming software developers. BOO!

Cosmic Bandito · Post by **Cosmic Bandito** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:18 pm

I'm sure I'm being master of the obvious when I say the future looks like lots of software supplemented by 'fun and quirky' outboard hardware. I'd still love to have an FS1R or a Moog Voyager or a Roland SH101. Now when will the big boys start to do their part and releasing the 'fun & quirky' hardware they are still loved for (barely)? They will continue to try to 'dominate' the marketplace and fail while guys like Dave Smith fill the void.

Lunatique · Post by **Lunatique** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:43 pm

What these big hardware manufacturers lack currently is innovative vision. They are panicking because they don't know how to fit into the current music market--a market where little upstart companies based in someone's garages/basement are stealing all the attention with their inexpensive, yet powerful and revolutionary software products. They are also panicking because a lot of modern musicians are now realizing just how ridiculously powerful a laptop, a MIDI controller, and some software can be. In fact, I bet you the hardware companies are terrified to the bone of the current trend. And you know what's even worse for them? They are seeing their graves being dug right in front of their eyes when the younger generation--those who grew up ALREADY taking the power of computer-based music making FOR GRANTED. To these kids, the idea of fumbling with a small LCD or touchscreen that's even smaller than a laptop screen is just something unthinkable. It's like kids today who play video games--why the hell would they go and play Pong when they've got Grand Theft Auto, Halo 2, Tekken 5, Counter-Strike, Final Fantasy XII..etc?

What hardware companies should do is stop trying to compete with the PC and just concentrate on innovative new hardwares that will revolutionize the way we INTERFACE with our instruments/softwares. Go beyond knobs and ribbons and joysticks--give me something that came straight out of a cyberpunk novel--something that will knock me on my ass with its brilliant design. THAT, is the future of hardware in music.

I'm sure someone will say, "Hey, but these synth workstations are made for the musician on the road--so they can compose/arrange/record new material anywhere." Well, I don't know about you, but if I'm going to be on the road for long enough to want a music-making setup with me, I'd much rather have a small MIDI controller and a powerful laptop with powerful softwares installed. That is MUCH lighter and smaller than a monster synth workstation.

So, if a synth workstation has no advantage on the road over a laptop/MIDI controller, what the hell kind of advantage does it have in the studio against powerful PCs with large monitors and full-sized MIDI controllers?

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:44 pm

since "corporations" (eg. those entities who seem as if they would manufacture to meet any, eg. global demand given 1/2 a chance) are oc hindered by their volume (eg. "which vectored, generalised and undiscrete need do we target?") perhaps we are observing a natural dynamic..

if you ask me, "global models don't work.." the human experience doesn't wish to be standardised.. 'consumer (even tho the model is centralised) trends' seem to indicate a natural diversification.. (yea, even with the unfortunate artificially-heightened model of requiring-from-others)

now that more people have the means to meet the 'industrial standard of sonic quality' (har har, suckers/unconscionably unconscious butchers..) the illusion of feasible conformity simply doesn't hold. there simply "can't always be top companies making top products" because the whole "top" thing is bollocks/an artificial object.

you want 'hardware for hardwareists?' there are boatloads of analog modulars out there, a good proportion of which are designed with compatibility in mind. this is why vst and mp3 are successful..

compatability.. standardisation.. suss the difference? :p

(the first only requires tactical knowledge, which is always 'real..')

watch the big s/w companies go the same way once their illusory cache of 'proprietary algorithms' is poked to nothing. a little extra research spending.. i doubt will hold forever.

yes, and even given enough time, civilised man will eventually make enough artificial sounds to reconnect with a simple pleasure of listening for it's own sake.. cosmic purity.

(to say more would be to suggest that people's interest in producing twatty electronic sounds is as much a product as any h/w synth :p i reckon if you dragged your laptop into the bush, a bushman would find the pleasure of producing 'unique tones' negligible compared to the detriment of requiring specialised gear and contrivancy, but since artificial people will defend their love of artifice to the death of their identity, no point in arguing :p)

crimsontider · Post by **crimsontider** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:14 pm

Google is a perfect example of that.

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:24 pm

Wow you can get a brand new Oasys 76 key for only $7999.00!

http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/korg/

Howabout I just superglue a midi controller to a laptop and load a few softsynths in it instead?

This is the equivalent of building Fairlights in this day and age.

Keep it up Korg (and your ilk), you're doing the softsynth world a huge favor.

Dear Korg, hope you have a minute? A long Rant.