Roland Cloud

[Echoes in the Attic]

The right thing to do is simply give Roland plugout owners the cloud version perpetual license of the plugout they own. It’s also the simplest thing to do.

[db3]

The right thing to do is simply give Roland plugout owners the cloud version perpetual license of the plugout they own. It’s also the simplest thing to do.

Same for equivalent hardware owners to use software version as VST editor (option to turn off software audio engine).

[fmr]

But it's not like Virtual Sonics went out and bought out the Roland assets and took over the properties ,it's a partnership between both companies. These are still Roland branded products (it's "Roland Cloud" not "Virtual Sonics Cloud"), and Roland IP. Virtual Sonics seems to be acting as a vendor here by offering plugin development (they probably developed the original plugin implementation of the Plug-Outs if I had to guess) and the Cloud service.

If I had to guess, I'd say that you are right in saying that "they probably developed the original plugin implementation of the Plug-Outs". One thing I'm certain: It wasn't Roland, since Roland never had software coders in their work force, AFAIK. That's why they have so many problems updating their drivers, and usually abandon the hardware support so quickly, IMO. And, although "it's not like Virtual Sonics went out and bought out the Roland assets and took over the properties" it's like Roland Cloud (the new company) had done that, therefore the code doesn't belong to Roland anymore, and Roland has no rights over it - the new company does (that's my guess - I have no inside information about that).

There's two big issues at play with the current implementation of the Cloud Service: 1) hardware owners are being asked to pay for Plug-Outs/The Cloud, and 2) older Roland Content Store plugins have been abandonned and replaced with the Cloud versions without any path to upgrade. I imagine Roland could fix both issues and come up with some kind of solution, but as of yet has been unwilling to.

For both groups, the solutions are obvious. If you own the hardware, Roland could have the hardware act as a dongle for the Plug-Outs. As long as you have the hardware connected to the VST Plug-Out (via the already existing Ctrl functions), then the Plug-Outs for that hardware synth could be coded to be treated as "perpetually authorized." If the hardware isn't attached to the PC, then an active Cloud subscription or perpetual plugin license (which you can only get now via 12 months of the Cloud) is required. Then, if you own the Content Store versions of any Plug-Out, Roland should either offer 1) a free upgrade to a perpetual license of the Cloud version, or 2) a reasonably priced upgrade cost (say $19-29).

You forget one detail: Roland Cloud is NOT Roland, therefore, to offer those deals, Roland would have to offer some compensation to Virtual Sonics. They probably don't see that as "profitable".

As I said, I agree that Roland has a moral obligation towards thei customers, since they created big expectations with all that "Plug-Out" talk (not in my sipirit, since I know Roland well enough). But it's just a moral obligation, and Roland showed in the past that they are not really worried with that.

[rod_zero]

Just understand Roland is a company with very little care for their customers, it is not a company that likes to really develop their products in the long term and it is known to abandon stuff.

I do think that not providing existing updates to the owner of the plugouts is quite an asshole move, and because of that I am not tempted to either buy them or suscribe to the cloud I will keep just using them as librarians for the HW.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You forget one detail: Roland Cloud is NOT Roland, therefore, to offer those deals, Roland would have to offer some compensation to Virtual Sonics. They probably don't see that as "profitable".

I have no idea what any of the details of Roland's contract with Virtual Sonics are. You may be right, but there could be profit sharing based on the number of subs, or a million other ways to slice up the proverbial pie. Roland is certainly contracting the work out to Virtual Sonics, so based on my experience with vendor relationships, I'd expect Roland has the leverage in the relationship. I'd venture to guess that Virtual Sonics would be happy to do whatever Roland wants in order to maintain the relationship, but there could be some costs attached to that kind of move.

As I said, I agree that Roland has a moral obligation towards thei customers, since they created big expectations with all that "Plug-Out" talk (not in my sipirit, since I know Roland well enough). But it's just a moral obligation, and Roland showed in the past that they are not really worried with that.

When it comes to owners of the Content Store plug-outs (like me with my SH-101 plug-out), I totally agree. It's a crappy thing to do to update the products and not offer those updates to people who bought those products. Even if they had to charge an upgrade cost (I wouldn't love that, but I could understand).

But when it comes to hardware owners (like me with my System-8), Roland delivered everything they promised and absolutely nothing more. Would offering the System-8 Plug-Outs to System-8 owners build up some good will? Absolutely. Same for the TR-8S and owners of the Boutique series? Yep. Would releasing more Plug-Outs for the System-8 (example, future VA's like a JX-3P) also add some value? Yep. Shouldn't they at least release a librarian for the hardware? Sure, they should, and you can run the Plug-Outs unauthorized. The key thing to keep in mind is Roland never said they'd do any of those things, and I'd be shocked if they went above and beyond in any way.

Maybe once they figure out how to perpetually authorize plug-outs, they'll also figure out how to address one or both groups of people to make them happy, but I'm keeping expectations low. I kind of feel like thre was less of a unifying strategy at play here from the start than people give Roland credit for. Look at the Content Store plugins: why sell them if you planned on going Cloud all along? Who developed them? Roland? Probably the DSP, but I'd bet Virtual Sonics built the plugins. Look at the System-8: I can load any compatible Cloud plug-out into that open slot and keep it in perpetuity because the System-8 has no authorization method built in. So basically, anyone with a Cloud demo and the hardware could get a free 4th Plug-Out for their hardware. Why would they have not built authorization if there was a grand scheme at play? My impression of Roland is that they're throwing everything at the wall and hoping they'll have a hit, and when they don't, they just move on and try something else.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You forget one detail: Roland Cloud is NOT Roland, therefore, to offer those deals, Roland would have to offer some compensation to Virtual Sonics. They probably don't see that as "profitable".

I have no idea what any of the details of Roland's contract with Virtual Sonics are. You may be right, but there could be profit sharing based on the number of subs, or a million other ways to slice up the proverbial pie. Roland is certainly contracting the work out to Virtual Sonics, so based on my experience with vendor relationships, I'd expect Roland has the leverage in the relationship. I'd venture to guess that Virtual Sonics would be happy to do whatever Roland wants in order to maintain the relationship, but there could be some costs attached to that kind of move.

As I said, I agree that Roland has a moral obligation towards thei customers, since they created big expectations with all that "Plug-Out" talk (not in my sipirit, since I know Roland well enough). But it's just a moral obligation, and Roland showed in the past that they are not really worried with that.

When it comes to owners of the Content Store plug-outs (like me with my SH-101 plug-out), I totally agree. It's a crappy thing to do to update the products and not offer those updates to people who bought those products. Even if they had to charge an upgrade cost (I wouldn't love that, but I could understand).

But when it comes to hardware owners (like me with my System-8), Roland delivered everything they promised and absolutely nothing more. Would offering the System-8 Plug-Outs to System-8 owners build up some good will? Absolutely. Same for the TR-8S and owners of the Boutique series? Yep. Would releasing more Plug-Outs for the System-8 (example, future VA's like a JX-3P) also add some value? Yep. Shouldn't they at least release a librarian for the hardware? Sure, they should, and you can run the Plug-Outs unauthorized. The key thing to keep in mind is Roland never said they'd do any of those things, and I'd be shocked if they went above and beyond in any way.

Maybe once they figure out how to perpetually authorize plug-outs, they'll also figure out how to address one or both groups of people to make them happy, but I'm keeping expectations low. I kind of feel like thre was less of a unifying strategy at play here from the start than people give Roland credit for. Look at the Content Store plugins: why sell them if you planned on going Cloud all along? Who developed them? Roland? Probably the DSP, but I'd bet Virtual Sonics built the plugins. Look at the System-8: I can load any compatible Cloud plug-out into that open slot and keep it in perpetuity because the System-8 has no authorization method built in. So basically, anyone with a Cloud demo and the hardware could get a free 4th Plug-Out for their hardware. Why would they have not built authorization if there was a grand scheme at play? My impression of Roland is that they're throwing everything at the wall and hoping they'll have a hit, and when they don't, they just move on and try something else.

[Vectorman]

The repeated authentication requests are driving me a little batty with my trial period. They're wanting to be authenticated every day, sometimes more than once a day, and each synth plugin wants to be authenticated individually, so I have to do it for the Jupiter 8, and again for the Juno, and again for the...well, you get the idea. I was under the impression it had been changed so that you only had to do this once a week. Surely this stops once you have a paid subscription?

[rod_zero]

The repeated authentication requests are driving me a little batty with my trial period. They're wanting to be authenticated every day, sometimes more than once a day, and each synth plugin wants to be authenticated individually, so I have to do it for the Jupiter 8, and again for the Juno, and again for the...well, you get the idea. I was under the impression it had been changed so that you only had to do this once a week. Surely this stops once you have a paid subscription?

That is not expected behaviour.

[kmonkey]

Did they ever said anything about adding sysex import to JV1080 like they did with D50 VSTi?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

The repeated authentication requests are driving me a little batty with my trial period. They're wanting to be authenticated every day, sometimes more than once a day, and each synth plugin wants to be authenticated individually, so I have to do it for the Jupiter 8, and again for the Juno, and again for the...well, you get the idea. I was under the impression it had been changed so that you only had to do this once a week. Surely this stops once you have a paid subscription?

That is not expected behaviour.

I ran into this last week. Had a track with the TR-909 and the System-8 Plug-Outs and both needed to be authorized at the start of the project. Not sure what's going on, but sounds like some kind of bug.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

So the Roland System-8 hardware/S8 engine was just updated with a bunch of new filter banks (Jupiter filters, Juno 106 filters, Formant filters, and Harmonic filters), a few new Osc variation banks (two new sets of FM oscillators - two and three operator sets respecitvely), and a new LFO variation.

So far, seems like a very cool update. The Jupiter and Juno filters really add some versatility to the S8 engine with less harsh sounding filters, and the FM oscs let you get some very DX-7 like EP, bell, and clavinet type patches. There's a whole new patch bank to go with it.

Why do I bring this up? Because as of right now, the Cloud version of the System-8 doesn't have any of this stuff (I tried importing presets - didn't work as expected) so I'd expect there should be a System-8 update coming for the cloud soon that adds this stuff.

[fmr]

So the Roland System-8 hardware/S8 engine was just updated with a bunch of new filter banks (Jupiter filters, Juno 106 filters, Formant filters, and Harmonic filters), a few new Osc variation banks (two new sets of FM oscillators - two and three operator sets respecitvely), and a new LFO variation.

So far, seems like a very cool update. The Jupiter and Juno filters really add some versatility to the S8 engine with less harsh sounding filters, and the FM oscs let you get some very DX-7 like EP, bell, and clavinet type patches. There's a whole new patch bank to go with it.

Why do I bring this up? Because as of right now, the Cloud version of the System-8 doesn't have any of this stuff (I tried importing presets - didn't work as expected) so I'd expect there should be a System-8 update coming for the cloud soon that adds this stuff.

Seems like a big overhaul of the synth. I wonder how much CPU will it eat, with all those "bells and whistles". But look forward for the update.

[SLiC]

I wonder if they will ever throw a bone to us System 1 and System 1m owners.....

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Seems like a big overhaul of the synth. I wonder how much CPU will it eat, with all those "bells and whistles". But look forward for the update.

I don't think it'll eat any more CPU actually. It's still the same basic architecture 1xLFO with 3 destinations, 3 oscs, 1 resonant filter, 1 HP filter, 2x ADSR, and 1x AD pitch env filter. They just added some additional LFO/osc waveforms and some new filter types. The hardware itself can't get any more powerful, and I'd bet Roland was already pushing the onboard DSP about as far as it can go.

[D-Fusion]

I got tired of complaining about the lack of support for us roland contentstore and system 1 and 8 owners so i bought a Year of subscription a few days ago.

My favorites of the plugouts are the Juno and the System 8 since i already have the D-05 and the JP-08 and system 1, sh2 and sh101.

I did some testing with the system 8 against my Korg Prologue and got them very close but the Prologue sounds a tad more alive and solid while the system 8 sounded more hifi/open/Digital on higher notes

It could offcourse sound closer if i bothered to dial in the filter more closely on the system 8 so the ACB tech are very good in my view but the sound is more closer to a analog dco than vco which is also a plus if you want some stable analog mojo in your mix,

The Juno emu is just pure earporn
It sounds so juicy and lush so iam not sure what i will choose as a pemanent license when i get that option from the cloud but if the system 8 gets the filter updates i will get that one