What is conventionality/novelty in electronic music?

[BertKoor]

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assertTrue(thread < point);

[Opaque]

Have you listened to Autechre, Nicolas Jaar stuff, Tim Hecker's Virgins, Jlin's Black Origami, Bjork, Objekt's Coccoon Crush, Amon Tobin's Stone Giants project (West Coast Love Stories), Oneohtrix Point Never, Blawan's Dismantled Into Juice, Perila, Ryoji Ikeda's Ultratronics, Holden's The Inheritors, The Haxan Cloak, Kelly Moran, Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith, or Natasha Barrett (Little Animals)?

Most of these things were not released in the past 3 years, but still... would be interesting to know if you would consider most of them to be using familiar tricks.

[whyterabbyt]

No. We can compare it in a mathematical sense.

What a depressingly narrow and dismal view of music that is.

[soundmodel]

No. We can compare it in a mathematical sense.

What a depressingly narrow and dismal view of music that is.

It's the only level where we can be objective.

I answered the question about novelty being subjective (novel to someone).

But both have some place. Better (in electronic engineering sense) 1176 models are noveler than older ones, but it is different than older 1176 models being "more suitable for something particular (in some particular subject's tracks)".

[whyterabbyt]

No. We can compare it in a mathematical sense.

What a depressingly narrow and dismal view of music that is.

It's the only level where we can be objective.

Nope. Any definition of 'structure' or 'melody' or even worse 'sound combinations' or any of those things is entirely subjective to begin with.

[soundmodel]

Then why do we bother 5+ pages about conventionality of drums viewtopic.php?t=85030?

I do not agree that we can reduce music to just a matter of taste. Or if we can, then one must live with the idea that all music is equal in skillfulness. To me 4/4 beats and jazz rhythms are not equal.

[whyterabbyt]

Then why do we bother 5+ pages about conventionality of drums viewtopic.php?t=85030?

because someone thought a thing and said it, perhaps?
however as im not a time traveller, I cant go back to 2005 to find out.

I do not agree that we can reduce music to just a matter of taste.

Dont strawman.

[zerocrossing]

Okay so it's been something like 3 years that I have not found a single track that would've made me go "wow". When I was younger, it happened more often. Nowadays I think I've heard all the tricks.

How to overleap conventionality (doing the same tricks)? I had a Metasynth 5 license briefly, because I thought I'd make new music with it, but I sold it, because I wanted it to be a VST.

Also, any recent tracks that made you think it does it? Any subgenre of electronic music.

I don’t think it’s really possible. When I was a kid, getting hold of something like an Eventide H3000 was basically impossible. Now, for a few hundred dollars, it can be approximated in software. (Don’t @ me, I’ve heard comparisons and the differences were negligible, IMO) That’s just the tip of the iceberg. Now it’s trivial to get something like Other Desert Cities, or any number of exotic effects, and they can sound great. I’ve got access to great approximations to every classic synth I’ve ever wanted, plus modern ones that couldn’t have existed in the past. All of it is fairly inexpensive, and can often be rented if an initial outlay of cash is an issue.

Sure, you can do unique things with all that, but the truth is, you’re not really going to hear anything as mind blowing as it was when this type of technology was young. It’s become ubiquitous. Your only hope is to be able to write interesting music.

[Jac459]

No. We can compare it in a mathematical sense.

What a depressingly narrow and dismal view of music that is.

It's the only level where we can be objective.

Nope. Any definition of 'structure' or 'melody' or even worse 'sound combinations' or any of those things is entirely subjective to begin with.

Yes, I understand your point, but there are also patterns.... Most of the time when something is using old recipes the same way again and again, we can definitely tell.

I don't get why you are spending so much energy to tell the OP his question is irrelevant to you? Why not just ignore it then?

Anyway, you do what you want, not judging....

[Jac459]

Have you listened to Autechre, Nicolas Jaar stuff, Tim Hecker's Virgins, Jlin's Black Origami, Bjork, Objekt's Coccoon Crush, Amon Tobin's Stone Giants project (West Coast Love Stories), Oneohtrix Point Never, Blawan's Dismantled Into Juice, Perila, Ryoji Ikeda's Ultratronics, Holden's The Inheritors, The Haxan Cloak, Kelly Moran, Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith, or Natasha Barrett (Little Animals)?

Most of these things were not released in the past 3 years, but still... would be interesting to know if you would consider most of them to be using familiar tricks.

Funny, when I started to read the thread, I thought about similar artists than your list.... But some you give are unknown to me, I will check. Seems a good playlist to create....

[Jac459]

..... Your only hope is to be able to write interesting music.

Shit, I am f...d.

it is true that many technical innovation lead to new genres in the past and it seems more difficult now as the capacity of synthesis have exploded in a few decades....

That being said, I am sure new genres will still appears, new trends, new interresting way to play this or that instruments....

[whyterabbyt]

Yes, I understand your point, but there are also patterns....

The entirety of human experience is patterns. So much so that our mind will create them even when they arent there, attribute intrinsic value to them when there is none.

Most of the time when something is using old recipes the same way again and again, we can definitely tell.

Is a tomato then less tasty to you if it hasnt evolved in 20,000 years? I mean we can measure the chemicals, weight it, find the patterns, compare it to other tomatoes.,
But none of that is what makes an arrabiata or lasagne 'tasty'.

I don't get why you are spending so much energy to tell the OP his question is irrelevant to you? Why not just ignore it then?

Perhaps the OP could be pursuaded that there is more to music than novelty, particularly since they are bemoaning the lack of it. If someone is not enjoying a thing, then a change in perspective might allow them to, so why would you resort to saying 'oh, why try and broaden someone's mind just ignore?'

[Jac459]

Yes, I understand your point, but there are also patterns....

The entirety of human experience is patterns. So much so that our mind will create them even when they arent there, attribute intrinsic value to them when there is none.

Most of the time when something is using old recipes the same way again and again, we can definitely tell.

Is a tomato then less tasty to you if it hasnt evolved in 20,000 years? I mean we can measure the chemicals, weight it, find the patterns, compare it to other tomatoes.,
But none of that is what makes an arrabiata or lasagne 'tasty'.

I don't get why you are spending so much energy to tell the OP his question is irrelevant to you? Why not just ignore it then?

Perhaps the OP could be pursuaded that there is more to music than novelty, particularly since they are bemoaning the lack of it. If someone is not enjoying a thing, then a change in perspective might allow them to, so why would you resort to saying 'oh, why try and broaden someone's mind just ignore?'

You seems like an angry man...

As per your arguments, they were boring the first time you told them already. Don't bother arguing with me, I am not interested.

[whyterabbyt]

You seems like an angry man...

well, now you seem like a f**king nutter.

As per your arguments, they were boring the first time you told them already. Don't bother arguing with me, I am not interested.

noone needs to argue with you, you undermine yourself by default. bugger off now.

[whyterabbyt]

..... Your only hope is to be able to write interesting music.

Shit, I am f...d.

you seem like an angry man...