Erae Touch - All-around MIDI 2.0 controller?

[pdxindy]

My Area touch is now listed on ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325689913624) as I decided there is just too much over lap with the PUSH 3 (and having an OSMOSE). I would have kept it just for percussion but I also have a Roland V Drum kit so it just wasn't getting used.

Neither Push 3 nor Osmose can make 4 big X/Y pads for controlling synths like Zebra's 4 X/Y pads, or Plasmonics 8 Macros, or the X/Y modulators in Bitwig, etc.

[simmo75]

Linnstruments are built like tanks, the 'Moog' of MPE controllers with a nice bit of wood! They also hold their value, you rarely see one second hand so people obviously like them! Roger Linn is a class act, unfortunately I dint think we will see too many like him in the future...everything will be owned by InMusic and Behringer!

My Area touch is now listed on ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325689913624) as I decided there is just too much over lap with the PUSH 3 (and having an OSMOSE). I would have kept it just for percussion but I also have a Roland V Drum kit so it just wasn't getting used.

Strange decision to sell the Touch, but each to their own.

I hated the feel of the Linnstrument, and never felt comfortable with the texture, and lack of any feel.
It’s like playing a plastic table, in my opinion. The Push destroys it, in every way.

The Erae Touch is way more versatile than the Linnstrument, I can choose to have keys, pads, drum pads, anything.

Also, it took me months to sell my Linnstrument, it doesn’t hold its value as well as you think it would.

[FranklyFlawless]

Well if you want more issues from other users, there is no better place than the embodme Forums. It looks abandoned and neglected.

What sort of sad loser would hang around a product specific forum like that anyway? I'm glad Embodme don't waste their time there. As a customer, I hear from them several times a year, which is more than enough for me, thanks. When I had a problem, they fixed it in a week or so and I've had no problems since. That link I posted the other day was from an email newsletter from Embodme.

It is on the front page of the Embodme website, near the bottom. Those "sad losers" happen to be other ERAE Touch users who have questions or issues about their devices. There is another user from Elektronauts who has been having trouble with the ERAE Touch since it arrived.

In contrast, Roger Linn is very responsive and is far more accessible for questions and support.

Who cares when you can't try his product at any shop, anywhere in the entire continent I live on? His business model is so deeply flawed he's almost wasting his time bothering at all. To be fair, Embodme doesn't have a retail presence, either, but I was far more confident it would suit my needs, and I really wanted to support what they were doing, whereas I see nothing at all that makes me want to even try a Linnstrument.

Only certain dealers sell them. As already mentioned by another LinnStrumentalist, you can contact Roger to coordinate a product demonstration with a LinnStrument (128) owner in your area.

I purchased my LinnStrument through Tom Lee Music when they still had it listed in 2021. I did not need another owner because I already pursuaded myself with strong arguments that it was a suitable replacement for the piano/keyboard. Each MPE hardware controller caters to different needs and applications, so it is understandable that everyone chooses them for different purposes.

There are inherent issues with the silicone playing surface's grid layout that causes my fingers to get stuck while sliding chords diagonally. With my hardware modifications, I no longer experience that.

With my Erae Touch, there are no such issues in the first place. So maybe your perspective is skewed by your need to fix your device to make it usable? We have no such issues here.

The LinnStrument has many advantages with its sensors that make my hardware modifications worth the trouble. It uses two FSR layers in a matrix grid-array, separated by a horizontal spacer layer, that allows it to have wide dynamic pressure range and low latency for scan time across the entire surface. The disadvantages is that it is designed for isomorphic layouts, so it lacks flexibility for other applications, and that the 2mm spacer significantly reduces the opportunities for inter-row straddles, where two notes on the same column, but adjacent rows, are pressed simultaneously using one finger.

The ERAE Touch has a dealbreaker due to it using a force-sensing multi-touch trackpad. While its advantage is that 3D gestures across the entire surface are possible, it suffers from a lack of sensitivity due to sensor limitations, where the density of the FSRs directly correlates to pressure sensitivity and location precision, at the cost of latency. In order to keep the latency as low as 1ms, Embodme had to also keep the sensor density low as well, so the surface is not well suited for performances that require a large dynamic range or fine precision. This is also largely the reason behind Embodme recommending drumsticks as a possible application on their surface. In contrast, Roger suggests to use a light touch with the LinnStrument, as too much force will prematurely wear out the sensitive sensors.

Everything I use requires the capability to be used with Linux without using proprietary software and/or drivers. I have to be especially thorough with my research when it comes to music equipment.

Why? This is an excellent example of the stupidity of choosing your OS first - it makes for some massive headaches down the line. I don't choose products that work with my OS, I choose the OS that works with the products I want to use.

Music is under the larger umbrella of digital sovereignty. Everything I own and use is audited for security purposes. Anything that gives control to the vendor or manufacturer is rejected. Conversely, anything that gives control to me is a candidate for inclusion. I am not interested in other operating systems or products that do not respect my values or interests.

An important criteria I use is longevity. What does the manufacturer do to ensure that their products receive updates after launch for years to come?

Who cares? If it's working now, it will continue to work for as long as I ne3ed it to, unless I break it. I don't care if Embodme never update it again.

OTOH, Roger Lin is not a young man, what happens if he drops off the perch tomorrow?

I do, and others as well. Products need to stay relevant with the industry they are in, otherwise their lack of adoption will negatively affect business. If the business closes, consumers need methods to resolve issues with their products to extend its lifespan. If there are no resources available, then the product value greatly diminishes and it becomes junk. Money is finite and must be spent wisely.

Roger answers that question on the LinnStrument Support page, in FAQs:

Q: Roger, you're 67 (as of 2023). What if you retire? Will I be able to get parts? Will LinnStrument become unavailable?

A: That's a legitimate question. First, I'm not the type of person to retire because I enjoy what I do too much, and I have enough time to enjoy other life pursuits. But if I semi-retire someday, I'd make sure that someone continues to make LinnStruments and LinnStrument replacement parts. If needed, I'd open-source the hardware, just as I open-sourced the software. The most important thing to me is that people are able to continue to get LinnStruments and replacement parts forever.

You do not need to wait for any of this to happen. You can simply contact Roger and he will provide you with whatever you need for product support. For example, I received schematics for the LinnStrument's steel top panel from him because I originally wanted custom metal fabrication for my hardware modifications.

... avoid placing myself in a position where all I have left is discontinued/obsolete electronic waste.

That's what I said about my TB 303s in 1986. If only I hadn't got rid of them, I could have multiple Erae Touches now.

Well they are still obsolete and discontinued after 3 years on the retail market way back in 1981. Anyone using them now will not get any support from Roland. You will need to salvage parts from the other 10,000 units in order to keep it like stock, or possibly use 3D-printed parts.

[BONES]

Hey genius, you don't learn to play the piano to become a better performer. You do it to become a better musician.

No, you do it to become a better piano player. It's not going to help you play saxophone any better, is it? Nor is it likely to help you get better at playing an Erae Touch or a Roli Seaboard.

Your laziness with regards to actually learning to play an instrument contributes to the flood of shit masquerading as contemporary music.

I'm the singer, baby, I don't have to play anything to claim my share of the rider. But I'll pass your comments onto my bandmate, who does most of the musical stuff, I'm sure he won't be at all offended by your disparaging remarks.

You are everything that is wrong with modern music. Just an obnoxious troll who couldn't play "chopsticks" if your life depended on it.

Probably not but I can play that one where you roll your knuckles over the black keys. It's kinda fun and it always gets a cheer from the audience. Your snobbery around musicianship, however, is quite revealing. It seems to be something you hide behind, to cover your insecurity. Punk freed us from such dated thinking almost 50 years ago now but it's amazing how desperately some people still cling to those quaint notions.

Strange decision to sell the Touch, but each to their own.

To be fair, he never seemed to use it much. He was one of the first here to get one and it took ages to get any feedback about it from him. It's probably something that just didn't click with him, which is fair enough. I love mine, it is exactly the kind of controller I was after. The 16 layouts is perfect for a full set on stage - one layout per song - and the ALT layouts give me plenty of spare room if I ever need it. It's that customisability that really sets it apart for me.

I purchased my LinnStrument through Tom Lee Music when they still had it listed in 2021.

Are they still going? Good to hear. I used to buy heaps of stuff from them, in Hong Kong, when I was travelling for work, all the way back to when I was in Army in the 1980s.

Everything I own and use is audited for security purposes. Anything that gives control to the vendor or manufacturer is rejected.

Oh, tin-foil hat brigade. I hadn't quite seen that coming. Well, no point reading any further.

[Ex Machina]

Hey genius, you don't learn to play the piano to become a better performer. You do it to become a better musician.

No, you do it to become a better piano player. It's not going to help you play saxophone any better, is it? Nor is it likely to help you get better at playing an Erae Touch or a Roli Seaboard.

As a case study in personality disorders, yours is equal parts fascinating and grotesque. Not fascinating in the sense that you exhibit any redeeming qualities. But rather how you can be so oblivious to the fact that you sound utterly ridiculous. Learning to play the piano, the guitar, or almost any instrument on which you can play chords, will give you a grounding in harmony that will allow you to write more interesting and sophisticated chord progressions. You don't seem to understand the difference between composition and performance. Learning to play the piano will make you a more accomplished songwriter (and of course a better keyboard player).

[pdxindy]

Roger answers that question on the LinnStrument Support page, in FAQs:

Q: Roger, you're 67 (as of 2023). What if you retire? Will I be able to get parts? Will LinnStrument become unavailable?

A: That's a legitimate question. First, I'm not the type of person to retire because I enjoy what I do too much, and I have enough time to enjoy other life pursuits. But if I semi-retire someday, I'd make sure that someone continues to make LinnStruments and LinnStrument replacement parts. If needed, I'd open-source the hardware, just as I open-sourced the software. The most important thing to me is that people are able to continue to get LinnStruments and replacement parts forever.

You do not need to wait for any of this to happen. You can simply contact Roger and he will provide you with whatever you need for product support. For example, I received schematics for the LinnStrument's steel top panel from him because I originally wanted custom metal fabrication for my hardware modifications.

Roger's vision and support are second to none.

Btw, what hardware modifications did you make?

[SLiC]

Linnstruments are built like tanks, the 'Moog' of MPE controllers with a nice bit of wood! They also hold their value, you rarely see one second hand so people obviously like them! Roger Linn is a class act, unfortunately I dint think we will see too many like him in the future...everything will be owned by InMusic and Behringer!

My Area touch is now listed on ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325689913624) as I decided there is just too much over lap with the PUSH 3 (and having an OSMOSE). I would have kept it just for percussion but I also have a Roland V Drum kit so it just wasn't getting used.

Strange decision to sell the Touch, but each to their own.

I hated the feel of the Linnstrument, and never felt comfortable with the texture, and lack of any feel.
It’s like playing a plastic table, in my opinion. The Push destroys it, in every way.

The Erae Touch is way more versatile than the Linnstrument, I can choose to have keys, pads, drum pads, anything.

Also, it took me months to sell my Linnstrument, it doesn’t hold its value as well as you think it would.

It’s not sold yet!

I do t have a linnstrument I have an Osmose, that is my preferred way of playing, but I also just bought a PUSH 3 stand-alone and it covers the same ground as an MPE surface with slides and scales and finger drumming etc…just need the desk space!

[FranklyFlawless]

Roger's vision and support are second to none.

Btw, what hardware modifications did you make?

I replaced the silicone's inner playing surface with a different flat/slippery material, and reversed the steel top panel like Lar's LinnStrument Dark Mod. In their thread, they chose to permanently recess the countersunk screws so that it works on the reverse side of the steel top panel, at the cost of structural integrity, whereas I chose to purchase a set of 50 pan head screws from McMaster instead to counter that.

My "LinnStrument Darker Mod" is designed to make their modifications obsolete, while also lasting significantly longer and addressing every issue raised by them, Roger, and even myself. The pan head screws have not arrived yet, but I expect them to come within the next two weeks, hopefully before my flight case from Swanflight does too. Once that happens, I will make a thread in the Roger Linn Design board detailing the "LinnStrument Darker Mod". It probably will not be as viral as Chris' Speedbumpy Surface due to the significantly increased learning curve, but I am certain my thread will gain plenty of traction nonetheless.

[simmo75]

Roger's vision and support are second to none.

Btw, what hardware modifications did you make?

I replaced the silicone's inner playing surface with a different flat/slippery material, and reversed the steel top panel like Lar's LinnStrument Dark Mod. In their thread, they chose to permanently recess the countersunk screws so that it works on the reverse side of the steel top panel, at the cost of structural integrity, whereas I chose to purchase a set of 50 pan head screws from McMaster instead to counter that.

My "LinnStrument Darker Mod" is designed to make their modifications obsolete, while also lasting significantly longer and addressing every issue raised by them, Roger, and even myself. The pan head screws have not arrived yet, but I expect them to come within the next two weeks, hopefully before my flight case from Swanflight does too. Once that happens, I will make a thread in the Roger Linn Design board detailing the "LinnStrument Darker Mod". It probably will not be as viral as Chris' Speedbumpy Surface due to the significantly increased learning curve, but I am certain my thread will gain plenty of traction nonetheless.

This is a thread for the Erae Touch, maybe this would be more appropriate in the Linnstrument thread.

[BONES]

As a case study in personality disorders.... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You have nothing of substance to present as a counter-argument so instead you turn to character assassination. How pathetically predictable.

[killmaster]

Why do people name call and label each other. All this attacking and defending is sad.

[pdxindy]

Roger's vision and support are second to none.

Btw, what hardware modifications did you make?

I replaced the silicone's inner playing surface with a different flat/slippery material, and reversed the steel top panel like Lar's LinnStrument Dark Mod. In their thread, they chose to permanently recess the countersunk screws so that it works on the reverse side of the steel top panel, at the cost of structural integrity, whereas I chose to purchase a set of 50 pan head screws from McMaster instead to counter that.

My "LinnStrument Darker Mod" is designed to make their modifications obsolete, while also lasting significantly longer and addressing every issue raised by them, Roger, and even myself. The pan head screws have not arrived yet, but I expect them to come within the next two weeks, hopefully before my flight case from Swanflight does too. Once that happens, I will make a thread in the Roger Linn Design board detailing the "LinnStrument Darker Mod". It probably will not be as viral as Chris' Speedbumpy Surface due to the significantly increased learning curve, but I am certain my thread will gain plenty of traction nonetheless.

Thanks... interesting considerations. If Roger sold a different surface that I could exchange, I would try it.

[FranklyFlawless]

Why do people name call and label each other. All this attacking and defending is sad.

Usually to dehumanize and antagonize under-represented demographics.

Thanks... interesting considerations. If Roger sold a different surface that I could exchange, I would try it.

My LinnStrument Darker Mod thread is now up on the Roger Linn Design board, so come check it out if you are interested in a DIY playing surface.

[BONES]

Well they are still obsolete and discontinued after 3 years on the retail market way back in 1981. Anyone using them now will not get any support from Roland. You will need to salvage parts from the other 10,000 units in order to keep it like stock, or possibly use 3D-printed parts.

Hardware doesn't work like that. There are half-a-dozen repair shops in Sydney where I guarantee you could get e 303 repaired. My bandmate got his Korg Prophecy fixed by one of them a couple of years ago, no problem, and I got a busted key on my Analog Keys fixed there, too. Hardware synths are like cars - you can still get parts 20, 30 sometimes even 40 years after they are discontinued and if you go to the manufacturer/dealer, you'll usually just get ripped off.

[Kevin63101]

I got an ERAE (v1) from a US retailer in Aug 2023. Plug and play seems to work well, just starting to go deeper.

My primary use is for control functions (xy pad, faders) along side a standard hardware keyboard and some mpe playing on the ERAE surface. I have plenty of drum pads so won't use it for that.

Q: Does anyone know how to set up an ERAE template that will act as a ribbon controller to work similar to a kurzweil ribbon? I'd like to play solos from a roland keyboard, but do slide offs with ERAE as a ribbon (doesn't trigger, just pitch bend starting at relative position and resetting to 0 on release). Any advice is appreciated.

In general I see incredible potential for this product for many many different uses but have not seen others use it how I would as an accessory for use with a separate keyboard controller.
--------------
At NAMM Jan 2024 they announced ERAE II expected Summer 2024. New features like cv outputs, hands on controls, and improved sensitive surface. They are doing a discounted kick starter in February. See their site.

New 1.4 firmware update and eraelab app update were released in Feb 2024. They also said they hope to keep future firmware and lab app updates to work for both versions of ERAE.