New granular synth: The Mangle

[Neon Breath]

Personally, I see The Mangle as a granular synthesizer, not an effect. I rather see the dev pushing & polishing more further The Mangle than spending time on an effect version...

[jc_vt]

Not sure what you mean here. When I think of non-real time I think of something like Metasynth which computes before playing. I would consider this realtime, and do not see it as unique in DAW functions compared to something like Padshop....

Possibly a controversial view given that most people want to see this, but I'd rather not see an effect/real-time input version of The Mangle.

There are already so many real-time granulators out there. Is a real-time version of The Mangle really going to surpass the insane level of control available in, say, Melda's MMultibandGranulator? I believe it's actually The Mangle's non real-time approach that sets it apart from these effects and makes it so interesting in the first place. The precise control over the timeline offered by non-realtime granulators like The Mangle or Hourglass puts them in an entirely different ball park to audio input granulators. Granulation is at it's best when you can precisely manipulate time, and The Mangle does this brilliantly.

As any developer only has so much time to spend on his or her product, I'd rather see that time invested in enhancing The Mangle's synthesis capabilities and pushing further into the realms of things that are impossible with real-time granulation. This is (AFAIK) the first granulator that offers the sonic possibilities of non-real time granulation in a DAW environment. I think it'd be a shame if development efforts were refocused on adding features that a ton of other plugs already offer, rather than on developing the things that make it so distinguished in the first place.

[cron]

Apologies for the confusion, I should have said real-time input.

You're right about Padshop; I'd forgotten about it tbh. I've read the manual and the modulation matrix looks impressive and does give it some of The Mangle's capabilities. Regardless, it seems Padshop's approach is much different and, like Granite, geared toward achieving lush diffused pad sounds. The Mangle seems to come from a very different place in which lush pads can give way to hyperkinetic spiky madness with the flick of a macro; it seems much more in tune with the expressive potential of granular synthesis to me.

I'd like to see more modulators as two of each is quite limiting at the moment, and I don't believe modulators can currently influence the parameters of other modulators either, which would be fantastic. Right now, I feel the combination of the multitimbral granular engine (which AFAIK nothing else offers) and Massive-like visual modulation system is a winner that leaves all other implementations in the dust. As a one-man operation with finite resources, I'd like to see Tom invest his development efforts in maturing and extending the possibilities this combination offers. While a real-time granulator with The Mangle's harmonic pitch-locking feature and visual modulation system would be great for live performance, I feel plenty well served in this area already between KtGranulator for simpler tasks and Melda's insanely powerful black hole of a real time granulator for more complex applications.

[Sampleconstruct]

Regardless, it seems Padshop's approach is much different and, like Granite, geared toward achieving lush diffused pad sounds.

That's simply wrong, Padshop can create all sorts of granular textures, "diffuse pad sounds" being only one aspect of it. The big difference to The Mangle is that it can create up to 8 grainstreams simultaneously and it has various FX on board.

The Mangle's modulation system is more advanced. If you want Padshop's superb grain engine with a more complex modulation system and support of limitless multisampling (per zone) go for HALion 5.

[ThomasHelzle]

Possibly a controversial view given that most people want to see this, but I'd rather not see an effect/real-time input version of The Mangle.

There are already so many real-time granulators out there. Is a real-time version of The Mangle really going to surpass the insane level of control available in, say, Melda's MMultibandGranulator? I believe it's actually The Mangle's non real-time approach that sets it apart from these effects and makes it so interesting in the first place. The precise control over the timeline offered by non-realtime granulators like The Mangle or Hourglass puts them in an entirely different ball park to audio input granulators. Granulation is at it's best when you can precisely manipulate time, and The Mangle does this brilliantly.

As any developer only has so much time to spend on his or her product, I'd rather see that time invested in enhancing The Mangle's synthesis capabilities and pushing further into the realms of things that are impossible with real-time granulation. This is (AFAIK) the first granulator that offers the sonic possibilities of non-real time granulation in a DAW environment. I think it'd be a shame if development efforts were refocused on adding features that a ton of other plugs already offer, rather than on developing the things that make it so distinguished in the first place.

I wholeheartedly agree with that

[Sampleconstruct]

I would see great usefulness for The Mangle as a granulator for incoming audio and not only as a sample player. It would be the opposite route which a program like e.g. crusherX took, which at first only processed incoming audio and then with an update is now also able to load wav files which opens a whole new world of possibilities and transforms the app into a playable synthesizer.
So if the dev likes the idea, an FX version of The Mangle will hopefully become reality.

[Caine123]

how is it compared to granite? granite is really awesome but lacks the timestretch feature synced to the host tempo sadly.

and can i use it as a vst so playing the notes in Piano Roll (FL Studio?).

[Sampleconstruct]

Granite doesn't support stereo files and pseudo-stereoises them, which I find totally off-putting.

[Elfen]

Congrats on the synth, love it.

[cron]

Regardless, it seems Padshop's approach is much different and, like Granite, geared toward achieving lush diffused pad sounds.

That's simply wrong, Padshop can create all sorts of granular textures, "diffuse pad sounds" being only one aspect of it...

I'll give it a closer look. If anyone knows anything about sound design around these parts, it's you. Apologies for the misconception. Rubbishing the capabilities of a synth I've only read the manual for to bolster my arguments about another was a completely unnecessary move on my part.

I agree with your comments about Granite. Lack of true stereo has always dampened my enthusiasm for it, as true stereo operation allows you to manipulate the reverb characteristics within the recording, almost allowing you to granulate the space in which the sound occurs as much as the sound itself. Its automation recording system is fantastic though - setting up a few sequences of varying length and listening as they slip over and around each other can be little short of delightful. Per-grain control seems de-emphasised in favour of a few simpler high level controls that influence how the overall playback sounds. Perfect for pads, surprisingly chaotic on drum loops. What it does it does very well - 'usable' results quick. It makes the method tremendously accessible.

edit: Missed your other question Caine. It is indeed playable by MIDI and responds to the piano roll. You can play melodies or chords with it like any other synth/sampler.

[Caine123]

Regardless, it seems Padshop's approach is much different and, like Granite, geared toward achieving lush diffused pad sounds.

That's simply wrong, Padshop can create all sorts of granular textures, "diffuse pad sounds" being only one aspect of it...

I'll give it a closer look. If anyone knows anything about sound design around these parts, it's you. Apologies for the misconception. Rubbishing the capabilities of a synth I've only read the manual for to bolster my arguments about another was a completely unnecessary move on my part.

I agree with your comments about Granite. Lack of true stereo has always dampened my enthusiasm for it, as true stereo operation allows you to manipulate the reverb characteristics within the recording, almost allowing you to granulate the space in which the sound occurs as much as the sound itself. Its automation recording system is fantastic though - setting up a few sequences of varying length and listening as they slip over and around each other can be little short of delightful. Per-grain control seems de-emphasised in favour of a few simpler high level controls that influence how the overall playback sounds. Perfect for pads, surprisingly chaotic on drum loops. What it does it does very well - 'usable' results quick. It makes the method tremendously accessible.

edit: Missed your other question Caine. It is indeed playable by MIDI and responds to the piano roll. You can play melodies or chords with it like any other synth/sampler.

thanks so much mate, are you an official dev for the vst as well?
is there maybe a demo version? i got already alchemy, Granite, and some other granular tools but somehow i miss mostly the timestretch features with a nice gui and interface, Granite would be awesome with this and true stereo, sadly it is not so im still looking for such a granular vst, then things get much easier especially minimalistic OVAL type songs, you choose bits of a sample, sync it, make nice drones etc. WOAH! somehow i still wish alchemy will feature Granite's visual gui, Iris awesome spectral option + host synced timestretch! a niche no VST can do atm!

[cron]

I'm not the dev, just a bit of a mouthy fanboy.

It's a shame there's no demo, but the video at the top of the thread gives a great overview of its capabilities and I can report that the latest update has tremendously improved stability (for me anyway). I just can't see anyone being disappointed with this synth at £20!

[Neon Breath]

What's new on the Mangle side? Been a while...

[Neon Breath]

Hope it's not abandoned!

Is there a new version I haven't seen or it's the ocean of calmness?

[PatchAdamz]

What's new on the Mangle side? Been a while...

How would one download updates as they are released?