Bye bye VST2

[machinesworking]

You know not what you speak about.
I am 99.99% confident I have it right. Why? cause i knew the opcode engineers who then went to work for apple developing au, core audio and core midi. I got to know them from being an opcoder user and beta tester.

When Gibson killed oms, in effect it killed the possibility of oms being developed for use in os x which was in development to be released shortly.

It is why au, core audio and core midi only came out a few years later after the demise of opcode as the engineers were developing it for OS X.

Only steve jobs coming to tell me personally would make me more confident.

Btw the legal battle you speak of is documented here...
https://www.cultofmac.com/473927/today- ... r-beatles/

(for completeness I wasn't implying that only ex opcode employees were involved, but some were part of that team who went to apple to help develop those mentioned technologies.)
rsp

We can double down on this fight if you want. My old synth player in the 80's got a job at Apple specifically because he knew MIDI on top of everything else. He worked directly with Doug Wyatt and the rest of the Opcode guys, before and after they were bought by Gibson, and developed AMS. Opcode always had a super solid relationship with Apple being from the west coast and doing OMS for OS 9, but It was always about VSTs and their tendency to be less stable in Mac OS than on Windows. Everything else was secondary. If they wanted another third party MIDI setup they probably could have talked to MOTU about opening up FreeMIDI which is what you would use with their interfaces on OS 9.

Look, all this was discussed ad nauseam back when AU first came out, developers and even some Logic team members openly admitted why AU came about on a forum called osxaudio.com. It's pretty clear that it was some great luck for Apple, that they really benefitted from Opcodes predicament being able to hire the team, but AU was already being discussed with developers from MOTU and Emagic etc. pre OS X being released.

[zvenx]

They deliberately did not want a third party which was part of my point because of how dependent they were on third party oms.
I think opcode only produced one set of vst's. Fusion or something I think it was called, I remember it having a vocoder and maybe two or three other plugins..my recollection was fusion was a dip their toe in the water for the vst world.. and they were developing other vsts when gibson shut it down.

Are you saying au was planned before gibson shut opcode down?
https://www.harmonycentral.com/news/unc ... le-r11624/

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2002/07/ ... es-Emagic/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-hop ... ndroid_app


rsp

[jamcat]

Fusion:FILTER
Fusion:VINYL
Fusion:VOCODE

Fusion:EFFECTS:
opCHORUS
opECHO
opFLANGE
opPANNER
opREZN8
opRING
opALIGN
opBOXDLY
opCOMP
opCYCLE
opSQUASH

The first 3 were on Windows, the Fusion:EFFECTS were Mac only, if I recall.

[zvenx]

Yes. I might still have my box somewhere.

I think emphasis on think doug et others had started an offshoot, zero crossing, zero something? To develop more vsts and gibson shut them down and sued them iirc.

rsp

[jamcat]

I was a big fan of OPCODE, having first started out on Studio Vision Pro.

I'm also a big fan of Gibson. For guitars, anyways...

[zvenx]

Opcode was my daw of choice. Ez vision, vision then studio vision. I stayed with them as long as I could after.

As a result I boycotted all things Gibson including guitars and guitar polish until I finally caved in December 2023 because henry was no longer there and their new cep had giving back tom oberheim use of his logo and name.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080320015 ... itor/6454/
rsp

[machinesworking]

They deliberately did not want a third party which was part of my point because of how dependent they were on third party oms.
I think opcode only produced one set of vst's. Fusion or something I think it was called, I remember it having a vocoder and maybe two or three other plugins..my recollection was fusion was a dip their toe in the water for the vst world.. and they were developing other vsts when gibson shut it down.

Are you saying au was planned before gibson shut opcode down?

No I'm saying they were concurrent lucky for Apple, and unlucky for the rest of us events. Apple 100% always planned on Core Audio and Core MIDI for OS X, and when VSTs kept being less reliable on OS 9, AU was their in house solution to that. It's true that eventually VST2 was reverse engineered by hosts to be as reliable as AU, but in the early 2000's that wasn't the case at all.

I'm guessing your ties to Opcode basically bragged that they were the reason for AU etc. and you ran with that as being that Gibson killing Studio Vision was why Apple made AU, but again it was more like Apple being lucky to grab people from Opcode because they already planned all this from the start.

Anyway it doesn't really change any of our lives if you're right or wrong, I was just really fascinated with all of that time period, having bought Logic right before their acquisition by Apple, and reconnecting with my old bandmate that was working for Apple through all of this transition to OS X etc. We still talk at least bi weekly, if he has any more to add to this I'll bounce back in with what he says.

[machinesworking]

As a result I boycotted all things Gibson including guitars and guitar polish until I finally caved in December 2023 because henry was no longer there

I've own a modified Les Paul Pro forever and after my stepfather died I got a Ripper and a J160E. I hate that I can't afford the black Les Paul Custom that I had in the 80's, but I'm glad that jerk is gone.

[jamcat]

Juszkiewicz wasn't just a jerk. He was also really really bad at his job.
He nearly destroyed the 130-year-old company, and finally had to be tossed out kicking and screaming by the investors who saved bankrupt Gibson from his disastrous rein.

Sometimes hostile takeovers are good.

[zvenx]

Charles Clouser, who was also an Opcode user, has more or less the same understanding as I have and he has way more industry/apple contacts than I ever will have.

Ancient history lesson: CoreMidi is descended from the old Opcode Midi System (OMS) which was the proprietary port-management software that Opcode distributed with its multi-port MIDI Interface hardware and their software like StudioVision (the first real MacOS audio+Midi DAW), and Galaxy+Editors (an elaborate patch librarian and editor software broadly similar to MidiQuest). In fact, Doug Wyatt, one of the senior software engineers at Opcode, was directly responsible for the development of OMS and later joined Apple in the position of Audo API Architect, where he helped code Apple's successor to OMS, which was CoreAudio and CoreMidi. Doug remains in this position at Apple to this day. OMS was the system-level drivers, roughly equivalent to CoreMidi, and OMS Setup was the configuration app which was roughly equivalent to today's Audio Midi Setup app. (History lesson over.)

And I was directly told back then that apple hired them because they decided after the gibson fiasco, they won't ever rely on a third party standard again. And there were plans before Gibson shut it down to make OMS OS X compliant.. Doug even (mentioned in one of my links above) created a petition to make OMS open source so that would still happen.

Anyway that's it for me on this topic.
rsp

[machinesworking]

And I was directly told back then that apple hired them because they decided after the gibson fiasco, they won't ever rely on a third party standard again. And there were plans before Gibson shut it down to make OMS OS X compliant.. Doug even (mentioned in one of my links above) created a petition to make OMS open source so that would still happen.

Anyway that's it for me on this topic.
rsp

That would all make sense if there wasn't already in OS 9 a competing albeit more specific to their line up of MIDI interfaces and DAW MIDI standard for Mac OS in MOTU's FreeMIDI.

Also, you keep on going back to MIDI, the claim you made was that Audio Units came around because Gibson killed Opcode, which is just, off. Again, I'll be chatting with my good friend who liaison'd with Opcode folks for Apple mostly before Emagic was bought, (who needs a self made MIDI expert when you have the people who made the Unitor 8 etc.), I'm absolutely certain he will not paint it out in any in my favor to win any points.

[dmcsweeney]

So, anyway... CLAP is probably the best plan going forward. Lots of choice, more added regularly:
https://clapdb.tech/

[pdxindy]

u-he MFM 2.5 is missing from that list

[Urs]

u-he MFM 2.5 is missing from that list

Nah, it was just listed early already, when it was in beta.

https://clapdb.tech/developer/u-he

[pdxindy]

u-he MFM 2.5 is missing from that list

Nah, it was just listed early already, when it was in beta.

https://clapdb.tech/developer/u-he