Did he??whyterabbyt wrote: I disagree, as does Xenakis. Who invented it. With tape.
That's interesting.
Do you know off hand what piece(s) this was used on??
Xenakis rules!
Modern forms of synthesis - is there one?
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
That's interesting.
Do you know off hand what piece(s) this was used on??
Xenakis rules!
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- Beware the Quoth
- 33310 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
Great link!
Thank you kindly sir.
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- KVRist
- 257 posts since 7 Mar, 2005
" Physical modelling sounds interesting, though. It might be good for complex, organic sounds, and it's probably getting more popular as we have the computing power to use it."
actually if you want to explore physical modelling your best bet is to get a korg oasys PCI as it will be years before there is a vst that can touch it. I think the best current vst physical model is easily steam pipe and thats one model of steam going through a pipe, the oasys has tons of models. I dont think anything will ever touch the yamaha vl for PM though for vst. The resources of yamaha combined with the PM knowledge of Julius Smith, thats stiff competition. It does crazy things like let you play a piece of sheet metal with a sax reed.
actually if you want to explore physical modelling your best bet is to get a korg oasys PCI as it will be years before there is a vst that can touch it. I think the best current vst physical model is easily steam pipe and thats one model of steam going through a pipe, the oasys has tons of models. I dont think anything will ever touch the yamaha vl for PM though for vst. The resources of yamaha combined with the PM knowledge of Julius Smith, thats stiff competition. It does crazy things like let you play a piece of sheet metal with a sax reed.
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
ISTR that early on Xenakis experimented with having traditional instrumentalists actually PLAY in a granulated manner. I'd like to hear a recording of that.
Did the tape-granular thing in the early 1970s as part of an electronic music class. At the time I loathed it. How tedious! Now I see that what the prof was teaching us wasn't the oddball cul-de-sac of synthesis I thought it was. [ I missed a heck of a lot in the rush to put the paws on the knobs. :-( Too late to go back. ]
Did the tape-granular thing in the early 1970s as part of an electronic music class. At the time I loathed it. How tedious! Now I see that what the prof was teaching us wasn't the oddball cul-de-sac of synthesis I thought it was. [ I missed a heck of a lot in the rush to put the paws on the knobs. :-( Too late to go back. ]
Last edited by Meffy on Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 33310 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
herodotus quoth
Great link!
Thank you kindly sir.
Dont say that in front of saulc; he'll sulk.
Great link!
Thank you kindly sir.
Dont say that in front of saulc; he'll sulk.
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRist
- 257 posts since 7 Mar, 2005
"And its not all about math anyway, since logical systems like 2D cellular automata can be used."
on a side note to that but still on topic, you guys see Lazyfish's Game of Life based drum machine in R5?
Thats what i call progress.
on a side note to that but still on topic, you guys see Lazyfish's Game of Life based drum machine in R5?
Thats what i call progress.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 33310 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
knot0fvipers quoth
actually if you want to explore physical modelling your best bet is to get a korg oasys PCI as it will be years before there is a vst that can touch it.
I'd say Tassman is possibly a better bet for some people, for various reasons, one being the fact that the Oasys wont run with current OS's et.c.
I think the best current vst physical model is easily steam pipe and thats one model of steam going through a pipe, the oasys has tons of models.
How d'you rate T4's models? They seem to be concentrating on VA, but the acoustic stuff certainly has potential, and Harm Visser (hero to Oasys users, AFAIK) seems to have migrated to T4 recently...
I dont think anything will ever touch the yamaha vl for PM though for vst. The resources of yamaha combined with the PM knowledge of Julius Smith, thats stiff competition.
They've certainly patented enough, thats for sure. But no longer interested in exploiting it, it seems...
actually if you want to explore physical modelling your best bet is to get a korg oasys PCI as it will be years before there is a vst that can touch it.
I'd say Tassman is possibly a better bet for some people, for various reasons, one being the fact that the Oasys wont run with current OS's et.c.
I think the best current vst physical model is easily steam pipe and thats one model of steam going through a pipe, the oasys has tons of models.
How d'you rate T4's models? They seem to be concentrating on VA, but the acoustic stuff certainly has potential, and Harm Visser (hero to Oasys users, AFAIK) seems to have migrated to T4 recently...
I dont think anything will ever touch the yamaha vl for PM though for vst. The resources of yamaha combined with the PM knowledge of Julius Smith, thats stiff competition.
They've certainly patented enough, thats for sure. But no longer interested in exploiting it, it seems...
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- Beware the Quoth
- 33310 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
knot0fvipers quoth
on a side note to that but still on topic, you guys see Lazyfish's Game of Life based drum machine in R5?
Thats what i call progress.
I hadnt. But he ripped me off, cos I was going to do that. Ummm, eventually. But erm, never got around to it. Feck. Actually I just wanted to do Life in Reaktor, adding a drum machine is showing off....
on a side note to that but still on topic, you guys see Lazyfish's Game of Life based drum machine in R5?
Thats what i call progress.
I hadnt. But he ripped me off, cos I was going to do that. Ummm, eventually. But erm, never got around to it. Feck. Actually I just wanted to do Life in Reaktor, adding a drum machine is showing off....
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRist
- 257 posts since 7 Mar, 2005
"How d'you rate T4's models? They seem to be concentrating on VA, but the acoustic stuff certainly has potential, and Harm Visser (hero to Oasys users, AFAIK) seems to have migrated to T4 recently..."
ill have to check out tass4, i havent even tried it since version 1 or 2. I remember i thought it sounded kind of muddy in a sense but the analog oscilators sounded huge. Just looking at the manual i notice how it has quite a bit of bowed excitation stuff but not so much for blown. It would be really cool if they could get it down to having a category of excitations and a category of resonators so you could blow a string, or bow a tube. This is still the ultimate example of physical modelling ive ever heard:
http://www.soundbytes.de/demos/bowtube.mp3
The guy did that with Sync, i tried to get the patch from him but he said he accidentally deleted it!
Harm's oasys stuff is cool but the prices he charged were absurd, like the bundle cost 3 times as much as the oasys itself.
ill have to check out tass4, i havent even tried it since version 1 or 2. I remember i thought it sounded kind of muddy in a sense but the analog oscilators sounded huge. Just looking at the manual i notice how it has quite a bit of bowed excitation stuff but not so much for blown. It would be really cool if they could get it down to having a category of excitations and a category of resonators so you could blow a string, or bow a tube. This is still the ultimate example of physical modelling ive ever heard:
http://www.soundbytes.de/demos/bowtube.mp3
The guy did that with Sync, i tried to get the patch from him but he said he accidentally deleted it!
Harm's oasys stuff is cool but the prices he charged were absurd, like the bundle cost 3 times as much as the oasys itself.
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- KVRist
- 257 posts since 7 Mar, 2005
" Feck. Actually I just wanted to do Life in Reaktor, adding a drum machine is showing off...."
yea but lazyfish always makes very usefull tools, im sure it will be more than just a programming experiment.
If you have the skill to make Life in reaktor you should make some kind of CA/generative modulation/control data macro. That would rule.
To be more on topic, i really dont think we need new methods of synthesis to make new and interesting sounds since we obviously havent even scratched the surface of whats been invented to date. What we need is new ways of controlling event data beyond envs and lfos, thats the weak link in the chain to me and what hasnt changed at all since the start.
yea but lazyfish always makes very usefull tools, im sure it will be more than just a programming experiment.
If you have the skill to make Life in reaktor you should make some kind of CA/generative modulation/control data macro. That would rule.
To be more on topic, i really dont think we need new methods of synthesis to make new and interesting sounds since we obviously havent even scratched the surface of whats been invented to date. What we need is new ways of controlling event data beyond envs and lfos, thats the weak link in the chain to me and what hasnt changed at all since the start.
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- KVRAF
- 4641 posts since 20 Feb, 2004 from Gothenburg, Sweden
Old pic (2002):Sicklecell666 wrote:Got any pics I can giff?stefancrs wrote:I wonder what people here really think of me
[img]http://files2.helgon.net/Gallery/{5EA/{ ... 53F57}.jpg[/img]
giff it!
Stefan H Singer
Musician, coder and co-founder of We made you look Web agency
Musician, coder and co-founder of We made you look Web agency
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- KVRist
- 205 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Germany
Since the terms "mathematical basis" and "kind of math" are so vague that your statement doesn't mean anything special, I guess you can safely state so.whyterabbyt wrote: Okay we'll start with the 'math'. Its quite clear that convolution and wavetables have completely different mathematical basis.
Ergo, there's more than one kind of math being used.
Alas, neither convolution nor wavetables automatically create sounds distinguishable from noise. If you want to use them as means for sound synthesis, you'll find out that the math required for that isn't all that "completely different". Guess how fast you'll have to deal with convolution when trying to keep your wavetable synthesis from aliasing...
The same as above. These are not synthesis techniques per se. To use them for sound synthesis, you'll once again need the same math since sampling theory, the laws of harmonic sound etc. stubbornly resist to change.Secondly, you claim that there is never going to be any 'new' math involved. Ever.
That's real interesting, but hey I'd like to see you do the work on this one. But I pretty much see fractals, a-life, and genetic algorithms as being 'new' in this field.
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
Hmmm... it's kind of hard to figure out a way to humiliate you with that photo. It's already kinda there.stefancrs wrote:Old pic (2002):
[img]http://files2.helgon.net/Gallery/{5EA/{ ... 53F57}.jpg[/img]
giff it!
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- KVRAF
- 4641 posts since 20 Feb, 2004 from Gothenburg, Sweden
been a while since I had that haircut, thos glasses, that necklace, that t-shirt and that jacket. granted, I still have a haircut, glasses, t-shirts, jackets and so forth. So I guess not all that much have changed really.Stefan H Singer
Musician, coder and co-founder of We made you look Web agency
Musician, coder and co-founder of We made you look Web agency
