Digital EQ Fact & Myth.

[koolkeys]

imho there should be a balance between:
a) this equaliser will change your life
b) all equalisers are the same

the truth is in the middle, this is my personal opinion.

That works, but it's really difficult getting some people to accept what seems so obvious to others -- like us.

You're lying. If only I could place THIS one on my tracks:

http://www.genwaveaudio.com

Then I would be multi-platinum baby!

Brent

[vieris]

guess that means nebula is not properly designed.

At least i didn't say it.

All properly designed Digital plug-in EQ's are the same.

which is a well known fact:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/su ... .1.23.3931

...assuming, we stick to the standard biquad implementation and demand the gain at Nyquist frequency to be 0 dB.

Thanks for the links.

guess that means nebula is not properly designed.

i guess that means, nebula models the +X

Exactly.

[vieris]

If you want to make a lot of friends fast,post this over at gearslutz. They're going to love you,i promise.

Well i have & all i can say is KVR is surprisingly more hostile.

As the mighty Christopher walken has said. "It was a horse deal with it"

[dirty oscillators]

thank you vieris for taking the time to post all of that.

[hibidy]

I've bought my eq's based on what they do, and how they do it. I don't (and cannot understand why this should be different to anyone) think that eq "a" does it's version of a 2k cut any different than version "b" statically. But I don't think every single 40hz roll-off is exactly the same in BEHAVIOR, therefor appealing or not appealing....depending.

Again, that just seems like common sense. If the eq DOESN'T......well, then it's probably not desireable

[eduardo_b]

imho there should be a balance between:
a) this equaliser will change your life
b) all equalisers are the same

the truth is in the middle, this is my personal opinion.

That works, but it's really difficult getting some people to accept what seems so obvious to others -- like us.

You're lying. If only I could place THIS one on my tracks:

http://www.genwaveaudio.com

Then I would be multi-platinum baby!

Brent

Oh, yeah, forgot about this one. Yes, when cost is no object and reality has lost its grip, this is the only way to go. I think ultra-multi-platinum is more appropriate -- and still understated. It's more than an EQ. It's...it's...I think I'm at a loss for words.

BTW, I see that the purchase page is down for maintenance. Probably to make room for a newer price with more zeros.

[koolkeys]

BTW, I see that the purchase page is down for maintenance. Probably to make room for a newer price with more zeros.

I know, and it's frustrating! I have all three of my credit cards ready but they just won't let me send them money from each of them to pay for this platinum EQ!

[Music Engineer]

All properly designed Digital plug-in EQ's are the same.

which is a well known fact:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/su ... .1.23.3931

...assuming, we stick to the standard biquad implementation and demand the gain at Nyquist frequency to be 0 dB.

Thanks for the links.

no problem. i'm happy to be of some help when it comes to busting myths in the audio dsp domain.

...it should be mentioned, however, that biquad designs are possible without the 0-dB-at-Nyquist condition. and also designs of higher order (non-biquad). but i guess the vast majority of EQs is probably based on biquad cascades following Bristow Johnson's equations. and that is not necesarrily a bad thing. it just makes sense to do it that way.

[bmanic]

There's one thing people fail to mention when they do these "It's all standard BiQuad filters in all plugin EQs!! Oh noes!:

A lot of "classic" analogue EQs do not cut nor boost exactly like it says on the label of the knob/slider. What it means is that on an avalon tube EQ if you boost using a single band you might get an approximation of that specific amount of dB and frequency that is labeled on the knob. In reality you might do a complex frequency/phase change that affects the whole frequency spectrum at various points. That single knob might boost at 3kHz, dip a little at 200Hz and perhaps lift the extreme high end a bit at 16kHz. Another thing to point out is that the harmonic distortion which is created is reacting dynamically to your EQ knob changes, that is, you get different amounts of harmonic distortion, at different intervals, different "spread" of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc harmonics.

What this usually translates to when users describe the EQ with their own subjective opinion is "it's musical" or "it's easy to get quick results".

NONE of the current emulations seem to do this, react exactly like the hardware in all situations (except the convolution based plugins or Nebula with it's volterra kernel engine).

Apparently matching this very behavior has been hard for manufacturers to re-create.

Cheers!
bManic

[koolkeys]

There's one thing people fail to mention when they do these "It's all standard BiQuad filters in all plugin EQs!! Oh noes!:

A lot of "classic" analogue EQs do not cut nor boost exactly like it says on the label of the knob/slider. What it means is that on an avalon tube EQ if you boost using a single band you might get an approximation of that specific amount of dB and frequency that is labeled on the knob. In reality you might do a complex frequency/phase change that affects the whole frequency spectrum at various points. That single knob might boost at 3kHz, dip a little at 200Hz and perhaps lift the extreme high end a bit at 16kHz. Another thing to point out is that the harmonic distortion which is created is reacting dynamically to your EQ knob changes, that is, you get different amounts of harmonic distortion, at different intervals, different "spread" of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc harmonics.

What this usually translates to when users describe the EQ with their own subjective opinion is "it's musical" or "it's easy to get quick results".

NONE of the current emulations seem to do this, react exactly like the hardware in all situations (except the convolution based plugins or Nebula with it's volterra kernel engine).

Apparently matching this very behavior has been hard for manufacturers to re-create.

Cheers!
bManic

Isn't the "vintage" sound really just a result of inaccuracies that come with transistors and capacitors anyways? I mean, software EQ's are so clean in general and having to program inaccuracies that may not even be constant from one bounce to another is likely what is making it so difficult. Would you agree?

Brent

[eduardo_b]

BTW, I see that the purchase page is down for maintenance. Probably to make room for a newer price with more zeros.

I know, and it's frustrating! I have all three of my credit cards ready but they just won't let me send them money from each of them to pay for this platinum EQ!

You must have impressive credit limits if it only takes three.

BTW, just noticed the ProRec link and took a look. Nice! Need to spend some time looking around.

[koolkeys]

BTW, I see that the purchase page is down for maintenance. Probably to make room for a newer price with more zeros.

I know, and it's frustrating! I have all three of my credit cards ready but they just won't let me send them money from each of them to pay for this platinum EQ!

You must have impressive credit limits if it only takes three.

BTW, just noticed the ProRec link and took a look. Nice! Need to spend some time looking around.

Let me know what you think! I have a LOT more content coming over the following weeks(I wish I could tell all!). I actually merged The Audio Garden with ProRec.com a few months back, but haven't ported over most of the content yet. In time, it will all come though.

If there is something you want to see there, let me know. I'm the co-editor, so I may be able to make it happen. We'd love to develop the community aspect more as well.

Ok, sorry for the off topic. Cheers!

Brent

[Music Engineer]

A lot of "classic" analogue EQs do not cut nor boost exactly like it says on the label of the knob/slider. ... That single knob might boost at 3kHz, dip a little at 200Hz and perhaps lift the extreme high end a bit at 16kHz.

i guess, that is what is meant with 'properly designed'. in my opinion, 'properly designed' should mean that it does what it says.

Another thing to point out is that the harmonic distortion which is created is reacting dynamically to your EQ knob changes, that is, you get different amounts of harmonic distortion, at different intervals, different "spread" of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc harmonics.

and that would then amount to the +X part in the equation.

...so really no contradiction here, i'd say.

the question whether or not the incorrect frequency response or the '+X' (nonlinear distortion) is good or bad notwithstanding, of course. that's then, yet again, a matter of taste. but my taste says: i want it as exact as possible and with as few additional effects as possible

[Rock Hardbuns]

Hmm, I am not sure you can separate the parts like that. Like, if you put a waveshaper in the feedback path of a filter, it will have a different effect than filter first and waveshaper after.
Admittedly, not something you'd do in a plain vanilla filter, but I'd be surprised if there isn't EQ's out there doing that kind of thing.

EDIT
Actually, this +X thinking is a misleading analogy. Bouncing the logic it's X = (anything - EQ) where EQ is defined as a plain biquad peak filter. I.E it can never be false because anything that isn't a biquad is X and therefore not EQ.

[bmanic]

Isn't the "vintage" sound really just a result of inaccuracies that come with transistors and capacitors anyways? I mean, software EQ's are so clean in general and having to program inaccuracies that may not even be constant from one bounce to another is likely what is making it so difficult. Would you agree?

Brent

Yes and no, the inaccuracies are not "constant" but they fluctuate so fast that it's not really "moving". I guess these fluctuations are just another type of complex distortion.

Cheers!
bManic