KVR Audio

teacue · Post by **teacue** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:58 pm

Could someone point me to software similar to Christian Budde VST Analyser but in order to analyse Hardware?
I try to get some curves from EQs of hardware mixers to compare them to software EQs.

I would like to get bode plots (I hope this is the right word for this) from the hardware, as to see in Christian Budde VST Analyser:
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1287.html

or as to see here:
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/88/rolandeq.jpg

Best regards

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:02 pm

Just a side note: The curves don't tell the whole story. I've matched several hardware as well as software EQs very closely to each other curve wise, and the difference in sound is still very audible.

I use Voxengo SPAN for this, put noise on both tracks, pan them hard left/right and switch SPAN into LR mode.

teacue · Post by **teacue** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:17 pm

living sounds wrote:Just a side note: The curves don't tell the whole story. I've matched several hardware as well as software EQs very closely to each other curve wise, and the difference in sound is still very audible.

Thanks for your answer.
I am aware of this but would like nevertherless to use such comparison as an aproximation.

living sounds wrote: I use Voxengo SPAN for this, put noise on both tracks, pan them hard left/right and switch SPAN into LR mode.

But these are not the same kind of curves as the one mentioned in my first post?
Though I do use SPAN, I am not sure how to use it for what I am looking for.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:26 pm

Well, more or less those curves are what you end up in SPAN, it looks different of course, but it's the same thing (X-axis frequency, y-axis amplitude).

Christian Budde · Post by **Christian Budde** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:48 pm

Hi,

you could use my VST interfaced ASIO host to do exactly the same analysis on real hardware.

Christian

Christian Budde · Post by **Christian Budde** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:01 pm

Hi once again,

living sounds wrote:Just a side note: The curves don't tell the whole story. I've matched several hardware as well as software EQs very closely to each other curve wise, and the difference in sound is still very audible.

No offense here, but it always depends on the EQ. A lot of EQs (especially software based) can be matched and no difference in sound can be spotted. I believe it will be the same for some hardware EQs. It's only more difficult to match them. Using noise doesn't really qualify for a good matching here.

In the last months I spend some more time to find the just noticeable level differences depending on several parameter and the ear can be quite sensitive when it comes to matching, but also it can fail quite often.

If someone wants to test his own just noticeable level difference for equalizers feel free to contact me for a test tool. The program can tell you what level difference you can spot at what frequency (for a given piece of music). But I'm drifting away here...

The most important thing is to maintain critical when judging. And always only trust yourself (which includes the stuff I have written above, as I have only tested a handful of persons so far).

Christian

EDIT: With the last statement I mean that there are always people telling you that "all EQs are equal" and people that can spot a difference even if both tested EQs are equal. I don't want to start the discussion here again, as it always depends.

Zaphod (giancarlo) · Post by **Zaphod (giancarlo)** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:32 pm

nat3 is suitable for measuring and sampling hardware equalizers.

Here my 2 cents:
Frequency response will not tell you the whole story there. It's very important harmonic distortion (even for clean eqs) and dynamics.
We measured hundreds of different devices: for example the same api eq sampled by velinas was great (someone said better than other releases), but the new library released by alessandro boschi shows a great improvement. As soon as we add new veriables (new harmonics, for example 10 instead of 3, a better representation of dynamics) and use better converters and higher frequency rate the emulation is closer and closer and you hear a big difference from first releases. What is amazing, harmonic distortion there is very subtle, so the large amount of improvements surprised me. Using simply SPAN you would never understand what is changing, their magnitudo/phase plot is very similar.

Zaphod (giancarlo) · Post by **Zaphod (giancarlo)** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:38 pm

a ok, you are the man who matched that roland eq using flux. You was not interested, forget my previous post.
Christian's vst analyzer is good for measuring external devices.

OMNIFEX · Post by **OMNIFEX** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:28 am

teacue wrote:Could someone point me to software similar to Christian Budde VST Analyser but in order to analyse Hardware?
I try to get some curves from EQs of hardware mixers to compare them to software EQs.

I would like to get bode plots (I hope this is the right word for this) from the hardware, as to see in Christian Budde VST Analyser:
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1287.html

or as to see here:
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/88/rolandeq.jpg

Best regards

SMAART

If you have any questions on how to do it, drop me a PM.

Cheers!

teacue · Post by **teacue** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:38 pm

living sounds wrote:Well, more or less those curves are what you end up in SPAN, it looks different of course, but it's the same thing (X-axis frequency, y-axis amplitude).

I believe, I am too slow in mind or something and I am not able to see the similarity between the two kinds of curve!

Christian Budde wrote: you could use my VST interfaced ASIO host to do exactly the same analysis on real hardware.

I am very glad you answered!

1
Unfortunately I am not able to use the ASIOVST.dll
I dont know what I am doing false but it crashes my host (Cubase 5)
(I send you an Email through KVR about this)

2.
Even if I could not "start" it, I have the feeling that from the explanations on your site, I don't understand how to use it to achieve what I want.
Some help would be welcome

Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote: a ok, you are the man who matched that roland eq using flux. You was not interested, forget my previous post.

Thanks for your thoughts anyway.

OMNIFEX wrote: SMAART
If you have any questions on how to do it, drop me a PM.

I had a look to your site and your programm seems to be very impressive!
I am aware that there is a 30 day full functionally demo, but unfortunately the programm is out of my budget at this time.

Best regards

Christian Budde · Post by **Christian Budde** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:04 pm

teacue wrote:
Christian Budde wrote: you could use my VST interfaced ASIO host to do exactly the same analysis on real hardware.
1
Unfortunately I am not able to use the ASIOVST.dll
I dont know what I am doing false but it crashes my host (Cubase 5)
(I send you an Email through KVR about this)

2.
Even if I could not "start" it, I have the feeling that from the explanations on your site, I don't understand how to use it to achieve what I want.
Some help would be welcome

You don't need Cubase or any other host for this. Just try analysing the ASIOVST.DLL in the VST Plugin Analyser. The testing data is passed to the ASIO interface and whatever hardware connected.

Christian

teacue · Post by **teacue** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:01 pm

Christian Budde wrote:You don't need Cubase or any other host for this. Just try analysing the ASIOVST.DLL in the VST Plugin Analyser. The testing data is passed to the ASIO interface and whatever hardware connected.

Christian

Oops! I knew I was doing something wrong.
I think I get it now.

Thanks a lot

Best regards

Blue Cat Audio · Post by **Blue Cat Audio** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:23 pm

If your host supports external effects, you can use two instances of our Blue Cat's FreqAnalyst Multi plugin and measure the spectral response of the hardware in real time (computing the difference between before and after the effect). You can use any signal (not only white or pink noise), which can be helpful to determine if the response of the EQ is static or dynamic.

OMNIFEX · Post by **OMNIFEX** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:54 pm

teacue wrote:
OMNIFEX wrote: SMAART
If you have any questions on how to do it, drop me a PM.
I had a look to your site and your programm seems to be very impressive!
I am aware that there is a 30 day full functionally demo, but unfortunately the programm is out of my budget at this time.

Best regards

No worries Mate

I just wanted to let you know, I am a happy customer of the product. I am not the developer behind the software.

I bid you good luck on finding what suit your needs.

Cheers!

Software to measure hardware EQ