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Copyright infringement or not

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

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KVRer
 
15 posts since 16 Jun, 2006, from uk

Postby modobo; Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:56 pm Copyright infringement or not

Hey folks I need ur advise on the following issue. The new MJ song called Slave to the rhythm sounds a bit like an extract from part of my song, I have created a Youtube vid so u can listen to the similarities, would be grateful for any advice given.. The extract is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BlR5d9_AX4 and the full song is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7aBZzJxkzY
lalala
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Rad Grandad
 
23971 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.
   

Postby Hink; Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:24 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

I wouldn't start thinking your ship has come in :hihi: That would be hard to prove that isn't just coincidence...:shrug:
Two fish are in a tank. One turns to the other and says, "how do you drive this thing"

The Moon Sleeps in the Middle of the Day
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KVRAF
 
2987 posts since 13 Oct, 2009, from GhetoVille USA
  

Postby ghettosynth; Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:26 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

No, I don't think that it's infringement, but, IANAL.

1) The similarity is coincidental, X "to the rhythm" is hardly a unique phrase.
2) The melody, such as it is, is different.
3) From Wikipedia: "Jackson worked on the song during the Dangerous sessions, and completed in 1998."

Your album was a flop, you're going to most likely have to prove that MJ heard your record while it was in stores. I think that's going to be a challenge. Just because something is the same as something that you wrote doesn't mean that it's copyright infringement. This only works in cases like "My Sweet Lord" because it's unreasonable to assert that the defendant has never heard something that was a hit on the radio. See the recent case regarding BT and a supposedly copied beat. The court considered the fact that the record that was supposedly copied was only available for a short time and that there was no evidence of it ever being sold. I suspect your record is in the same boat and you will have to demonstrate plausibility. Finally, the line in question is so short that I don't think that it will pass the sniff test on originality. If anything, it's more likely that you were subconsciously influenced by MJs style and phrasing and the similarity is a result of that influence.
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KVRAF
 
7285 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:34 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

Well, artists are listening to songs of other artists and Michael Jackson might have been inspired by your song but that doesn't mean that it were a copyright infringement.

I cannot hear any obvious similarities, there's enough in the arrangement to make it different.
KVRist
 
55 posts since 12 Nov, 2011

Postby knowix; Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:15 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

Michael would have to have been a bit more than just wacko to steal from your track. And this is putting it politely.
KVRAF
 
2037 posts since 27 Dec, 2002, from London
 

Postby cron; Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:49 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

There's also a Eurobeat track from the mid-90s called Dance To The Rhythm which has exactly the same phrasing in that particular line.

Fun story: In about 1997 I sent a demo to a few labels. I'd have been about 14. I was absolutely convinced that a track from one of said labels, released a year or so later, sampled one of the drum parts from my demo. The track was in the UK top 10 for a good few weeks. I went around telling everyone who would listen. I wasn't so much angry as a bit bemused. I was just a kid and I didn't really know how to go about challenging that kind of thing anyway. I didn't really think about it much after a month of two had passed, I was a kid and there was the more pressing business of drinking and smoking to attend to.

A few years later I re-listened to the track and clicked that the hi-hats were slightly different. Oh well - if not sampled, each drum hit was in exactly the same place as in my track at least. I still suspected they'd heard my track and appropriated a few elements.

It was only when clearing out some old stuff a few years ago that I found I'd made a copy of the tape I sent out. The track I thought had been sampled wasn't even on it.

Moral of the story is that there's so much music out there that there are bound to be similarities, however nebulous, between your music and others'. I'm pretty sure that's what's going on here. I've caught myself doing it in reverse sometimes. Thinking I've written some amazing track and then realising I've just nicked something I haven't heard in a while.
K82
KVRist
 
83 posts since 10 Mar, 2009

Postby K82; Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:59 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

http://mentalfloss.com/article/52289/bl ... plagiarism

Number 8 is about Michael Jackson and the questionable originality of a other song for the Belgian court.
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KVRAF
 
2987 posts since 13 Oct, 2009, from GhetoVille USA
  

Postby ghettosynth; Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:35 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

K82 wrote:http://mentalfloss.com/article/52289/blurred-lines-indeed-11-artists-accused-music-plagiarism

Number 8 is about Michael Jackson and the questionable originality of a other song for the Belgian court.



From the article:

The Issue: Twin composers Eddie and Danny Van Passel alleged that songwriter R. Kelly stole pretty much their entire 1993 song "We Can Start All Over." "You Are Not Alone" was released in 1995.

The Ruling: In 2007, a Belgian court finally ruled that R. Kelly did indeed steal from the Van Passel brothers. The judgment is only recognized in Belgium, where airplay of "You Are Not Alone" has been banned.


So, serious question, how is this about Michael Jackson?
K82
KVRist
 
83 posts since 10 Mar, 2009

Postby K82; Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:41 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

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KVRAF
 
2987 posts since 13 Oct, 2009, from GhetoVille USA
  

Postby ghettosynth; Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:03 pm Re: Copyright infringement or not

K82 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Are_Not_Alone


Fair enough, but, that's not evidence that he had anything to do or was even aware of the plagiarism. The court ruled that R. Kelly lifted the song, not that MJ did. Is there some other evidence that MJ was involved?

At any rate, the conclusion of that case was that large sections of the melody were identical, their claim 75%. I couldn't possibly listen any more of that sap, I found way too many crappy videos trying to find information, but, they certainly sound very similar, much more similar than the simple similarity that the OP is observing.

I'm not a Michael Jackson fan, per se, but unless you have actual evidence that he knew that R. Kelly plagiarized the melody, I don't think that it's quite fair to link him to the case so casually. It seems to me that he was a victim of R. Kelly's actions.
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KVRAF
 
2218 posts since 13 Jan, 2005, from Deutschland

Postby murnau; Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:51 am Re: Copyright infringement or not

timbaland the little thief. not the first case.
“Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more” ― Nikola Tesla
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KVRAF
 
7285 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:08 am Re: Copyright infringement or not

murnau wrote:timbaland the little thief. not the first case.
Not only Timbaland, many producers are stealing something here and there, especially in Hip Hop and for Dance music. A bass line, a piano melody, some vocal samples or just a few drum hits.

And all these "How-can-I-sound-like-Avicii" kids are copying whole arrangements, too... :shrug:
KVRer
 
15 posts since 16 Jun, 2006, from uk

Postby modobo; Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:22 am Re: Copyright infringement or not

Well guys thanks for your responses, most were professional except for Ghettosynth who seems to have this love for MJ thats preventing him from seeing this issue clearly. If my ship has not arrived, where is it then? It does not matter when a musician uses the same phrase that as been used by another musician, those are just words. When a musician lifts the exact words note for note in the same mathematical sequence, I'm in no doubt that there is an infringement. A person has to be tone deaf not to notice that the phrase is sang exactly alike note for note. It could be a coincidence and if so, it would be tantamount to winning $10000000 in the lottery.
lalala
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Rad Grandad
 
23971 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.
   

Postby Hink; Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:31 am Re: Copyright infringement or not

modobo wrote: . It could be a coincidence and if so, it would be tantamount to winning $10000000 in the lottery.

good luck with that :lol:...you are so wrong...I grew up with someone who thought that way and would write and write, send the songs off to the library of congress and paid all the fees...then he learned it odes not work that way. (from a lawyer) It has to be intentional and like was explained to you by someone else you need to prove that MJ was able to steal your work*. You dont get paid for a coincidence,...if I were you instead of asking here on a forum if you really think you have a case spend a few hundred bux on a lawyer...I mean if it is infringement that will be money well spent.

As to where is your ship? Who knows, I am 54 and still looking for mine. One thing I know for sure, when my ship does come in, most likely I will be on a plane somewhere :shrug:

* pla·gia·rism
ˈplājəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: plagiarism; plural noun: plagiarisms

1.
the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.
Two fish are in a tank. One turns to the other and says, "how do you drive this thing"

The Moon Sleeps in the Middle of the Day
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KVRAF
 
3587 posts since 20 Jul, 2010
 

Postby Sendy; Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:38 am Re: Copyright infringement or not

I had a listen to your tracks and I have to ask... are you trolling us?
I can haz Electronic Music Stardom plox?

http://soundcloud.com/sendy
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