ATC-1! (Damn it! Livingsounds was right!!!!!! well somewhat right)

[fas1piano]

last week i had the chance to spend an afternoon at schneiders buero, berlin. i tried every analog thingy imaginable and some very interesting digital stuff, too. great fun. i even got the funds to buy some of that stuff. so? i still got to play and make patches that don't suck. and that's where the true difference is for me.

just like i could buy a B3 and a leslie all i want, but i still won't sound like chester thompson. meanwhile, some practice on a clavia will take me much further.or i can get a nice used yamaha baby grand but should really rather practice my 4-note-scale-runs on my oldish digi piano if i really want to beef up my performance.

but that's of course just me. more advance players will rightly worry A LOT about the perfect instrument to play. unlike say, an ignorant guy like herbie hancock who just plays about anything any manufacturer puts in front of him and has the cheekiness to sound ubercool on evp88 shitty logic fake rhodes emulator.

one more thing: noone seriously debates that a good grand piano plays and sounds better than a digital piano and/or software library. but very often, the latter are useful for making music, so you are content to have that. it makes life often a lot easier. (jimmy smith toured with a hammond because pianos at clubs were in bad shape.) i think the debate about synths is so heated just BECAUSE it's a pretty close call and because analog synths are comparably cheap and low-tech items. still i would not like to stuff my music room with them. i prefer light, air and space.

[Chuck E. Jesus]

i have enough analog crap, but if i was looking for a new hardware mono synth, i'd consider a Doepfer Dark Energy...

[zerocrossing]

If you feel like you're having to fight with the tools to get the sound you want out of them, it can really suck some of the fun out of it. Getting the bottom end right in particular has always been a chore for me, going back and forth EQ-ing the kick and the synth bass, trying to find a happy medium. Having something that can help me solve even that one problem with way less fuss is a godsend.

Call me a centrist (or communist, socialist, etc ) but I agree with this. Even though I started this thread my expressing how much I love the sound of the ATC-1, I also said that plug-ins like Sawer and Poly-ana were hot on it's heals to getting it perfect. Judging by how far things have come even in the short few years since I've been using plug-in instruments, my guess is that in 5 years we see the current gap close. Also, we saw from Uncle E that Spectrasonics has done a nice job sampling my beloved instrument so someone who wanted "that" sound could get a fair approximation via software already, though without the ability to tweak that much.

Then we've already seen the mild jabs of the ATC-1's inferior digital adsr section. So once again, I got the wrong one. This rabbit hole has no end. How much does one have to spend to get the "right" one? Livingsounds, what's your annual income? Just kidding, but you see my point. So even though I guess I'm somewhat in the club, I've got a basic Jr. membership and I've already dropped $1700 in hardware synths. Does it cost $3000 to get full membership? $10,000 for elite membership? How much does it cost to make electronic music that sounds good?

So I consider myself very lucky. I've managed to progress in a career that pays fairly well and I'm part of a D.I.N.C situation. Frankly, I could easily pay the $3000 to get my basic Audiophile card. Over a few years I could probably even scare up the $10,000. Hell, if you consider my guitar collection, I'm probably already in that range. So why don't I? Because there are other things in life. Home, nice things to sit on and watch, trips, nice food. It all takes it's toll on my studio's quality. So I compromise and I guess I'll just have to grit my teeth and bare the horrible digital adsr stage of the ATC-1 for a while. Pity me!

[thecontrolcentre]

^^^^^^^^^
Somebody got his new toy. Enjoy!8)

Thanks. I'm enjoying the ATC-1 very much. Was up until 5am going through the Moog presets. I'm waiting to hear back from SE about the membrane, after trying (unsuccessfully) to order it from their website last night. The time difference between the UK and CA is a real pain. I got their last email at 3am ...

[living sounds]

It doesn't take a lot of money if you know what and where to buy and how to build and fix gear yourself. I've build and aquired my gear over like 15 years. It's really not that much, and I use it all frequently, things that don't get used get sold. Early on I actually wasted a lot on buying gear new or buying software that doesn't resell very well. But with the hardware, you buy things at the right time for cheap, use them, and then resell them again at the right time for (sometimes a lot) more. The Dollar-Euro exchange rate was quite fortunate as well. And I've been a 'poor student' most of this time.

As for the Studio Electronics envelopes, yes, they're rather on the sluggish side. Fast percussive stuff is just not what it's good at. If you want the perfect monosynth, great at everything, you'd probably have to buy a Model D. Pricy, no presets, no midi, no realtime control. For that kind of money, I'd rather keep my SH-2, SE-1, Polaris and microcon II with still enough left for the tape machine. The SE-1 has the Minimoog tone, the SH-2 has the bite and fast envelopes, the Microcon does the quirky and 303-ish stuff, the Polaris does poly and much more. That sums up what I've currently got in terms of all-analog synths.

I absolutely second what Vectorman said, there's nothing worse than having to fight with the tools. It took me a very long time to get everything set up so I can get where I want quickly. A lot of trial and error. It's all been working now for a few months, and I'm far more productive than I've ever been. I know I sound kinda relentless very often, but I think people could really save time by not making the same mistakes I made. Just like I was lucky enough to have found DIY-places like prodigy-pro and read advice online on upgrading equipment by people like Jim Williams and not bought a cheap compressor, but instead build a great one for less money, or bought a nice old console for cheap and upgraded it so it smokes an SSL as far as sonics are concerned. BTW, I'm totally aware of the fact that few people can and want to direct as much time and resources to this, but once it's done the output really profits from it.

[Uncle E]

Some cool sounds there, Eric - nice work!

Thanks!

[Uncle E]

And either way-I make music for me as well - not just others - and I notice the details. Its important to me - my trade and passion. Something I try not to take compromises on if it reduces inspiration...I live to be inspired. Who wants to live in a world of 'they cant tell the difference'?

Amen! That passion can translate through the music, too, so that even if the listeners can't discern actual sound quality, they might still be able to tell when the music itself is devoid of inspiration. Personally, good sound helps me to stay interested and actually finish things, I have around 400 unfinished projects full of mediocre sounding soft synths while a remarkably high percentage of the ones with analog synths are completed.

[Uncle E]

unlike say, an ignorant guy like herbie hancock who just plays about anything any manufacturer puts in front of him and has the cheekiness to sound ubercool on evp88 shitty logic fake rhodes emulator.

This point has been made before and yet he was playing a 9' Grand the last time I saw him.

[living sounds]

Amen! That passion can translate through the music, too, so that even if the listeners can't discern actual sound quality, they might still be able to tell when the music itself is devoid of inspiration. Personally, good sound helps me to stay interested and actually finish things, I have around 400 unfinished projects full of mediocre sounding soft synths while a remarkably high percentage of the ones with analog synths are completed.

Amen to that as well!

[Uncle E]

i have enough analog crap, but if i was looking for a new hardware mono synth, i'd consider a Doepfer Dark Energy...

Over the SEM? I've always doubted Doepfer from the uninspiring things I've heard from the A-100 and MS-404, is this a step up from those?

[thecontrolcentre]

i have enough analog crap, but if i was looking for a new hardware mono synth, i'd consider a Doepfer Dark Energy...

I was considering the Dark Energy, but the ATC is enough for me (for now anyway).

I have around 400 unfinished projects full of mediocre sounding soft synths while a remarkably high percentage of the ones with analog synths are completed.

Hmmm ... I thought it was just me. Almost everything I've released has been made with analog gear, despite my incredibly overfull VSTi folder.

[zerocrossing]

It's really not that much.

For fun, I took a list of just the instruments you listed to make our mushroom track and did quick searches on ebay to see what they're currently selling for.

909= 1799
727= 400
808= 2599
microcon II= 400
TX7= 50
sh2 899
SE-1 1000
Polaris= 840
JD-990= 399

For a grand total of $8386.

That doesn't include any of the external processing gear or mixer. Now I know those aren't the prices you paid, but it's probably a decent ballpark amount it would take to get that gear. So, one can see that a $900 computer with a copy of Komplete would be pretty attractive to people.

[Uncle E]

one can see that a $900 computer with a copy of Komplete would be pretty attractive to people.

This track was done with a $400 computer, Battery, and a single ATC-1:

http://www.jrrshop.com/eric/eric_dahlbe ... nipped.mp3

[zerocrossing]

one can see that a $900 computer with a copy of Komplete would be pretty attractive to people.

This track was done with a $400 computer, Battery, and a single ATC-1:

http://www.jrrshop.com/eric/eric_dahlbe ... nipped.mp3

Sounds cheap.

Actually sounds great and proves my point a bit. You didn't use a $1799 vintage drum machine. You opted for a $179 bit of software. It's a compromise.

[Uncle E]

Actually sounds great and proves my point a bit. You didn't use a $1799 vintage drum machine. You opted for a $179 bit of software. It's a compromise.

It's only a compromise if Battery were chosen for financial reasons. I happen to love Battery and think it's the best drum sampler I've ever used (although BPM is creeping up close behind). When these hardware vs. software discussions come up, it's usually only about synths. There are very few people who prefer hardware samplers.