One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[crimsonwarlock]

You get DQ written next to the name instead of points and moved to the bottom of the list.

It's meant to hurt...

(still to decide whether to show the voting details in the scoreboard or not. Probably not)

What "disqualification" means in general? You're out - plain and simple. As in your track gets removed from the contest and the votes for your track don't count nor would you be able to see who voted for you and all that.

I can perfectly understand that it may happen to miss a voting deadline 'cause life, but on the other hand if you don't have enough free time to dedicate to an OSC maybe you shouldn't join in the first place (talking in general)... For ex I'm a bit busy these days so I stay out until I can find the time for writing another OSC song Common sense, really

Exactly those sentiments are seriously taking the 'fun' out of something that was (and should be) fun to start with, while 'winning prizes' should be secondary. Just tmo of course but hey

One of the ultimate great things of the OSC was its very friendly atmosphere, that's getting lost a bit now I still fail to see why 'not eligible for prizes' needed to be put to the vote in the first place. I mean, every track submitted is first and foremost a tribute to that particular synth, and worth to be listed, points given to it simply show if other people like the track. Now we are going to lose out to some of those, because the focus is now at 'voting' (and stemming from that: winning prizes) instead of 'participating'

[solidtrax]

I agree, we should not forget that it is supposed to be fun to make a track and listen to all the other tracks. Hearing so many great tracks every month is inspiring! It's good to have rules but as long as we don't lose track of what is most important, more important than winning: having a great little community inside KVR where many people have become friends and where you can get feedback on your your music, talk about music and synths/fx/etc..

Now let's make some music!

[idfpower]

Exactly those sentiments are seriously taking the 'fun' out of something that was (and should be) fun to start with, while 'winning prizes' should be secondary. Just tmo of course but hey

One of the ultimate great things of the OSC was its very friendly atmosphere, that's getting lost a bit now I still fail to see why 'not eligible for prizes' needed to be put to the vote in the first place. I mean, every track submitted is first and foremost a tribute to that particular synth, and worth to be listed, points given to it simply show if other people like the track. Now we are going to lose out to some of those, because the focus is now at 'voting' (and stemming from that: winning prizes) instead of 'participating'

I understand what you're saying, but here's why I think this rule is fair: while winning a prize should come secondary and participating & having fun doing it primary, there are still some benefits that you can get, such as Soundcloud plays & comments and "bragging rights" if you can score a good position on the voting list; so in theory someone could just submit a song & watch his/her ratings go up while not moving a finger to actually get involved in the competition. Voting is part of OSC - without it it wouldn't even be a contest. Not voting shows lack of respect towards the others' work so in fact it can turn out to be as destructive as "tactical voting" to the competition's spirit, if not even more. Plus, as I've said before: if we the participants can't be bothered to vote, how can we expect the casual KVRist to do so? Think about it...

Tbh I simply can't see why this rule would rule the fun out of OSC..

[crimsonwarlock]

so in theory someone could just submit a song & watch his/her ratings go up while not moving a finger to actually get involved in the competition.

This still is being argued from a negative premise that still has to be proven to be present in the OSC. That is exactly what I don't like about this; it is instantiating a negative vibe in the OSC, based on another negative vibe that is probably completely without any merit. No matter how you look at it, it's has some negative connotations, and as a (very nice) community we should be vigilant against such things.

I also dare to predict the 'disqualification' rule will have a negative effect on the OSC, one way or another. It simply doesn't fit the 'OSC style'.

So hell, I call for a re-vote on this particular issue Or even better, forget it was ever put to the vote and just return it to the 'not eligible for prizes' rule

Bottom line (for me): as I'm running my own business with totally unpredictable workloads over time, it means I'm out of the OSC definitely if this rule persist. I might have time to do a track, but I never know up front if I will have the time to do the 'listen to all tracks and vote' within the given deadlines. So as the saying goes in the dragon's den: I'm out

[idfpower]

Ok, so what's the point in submitting a track for OSC if you don't have the time to listen to other's work then? Just creating a song with a certain synth under a tight deadline? You can do that on your own whenever you feel like without needing to join OSC But making a song it's just one part of the fun - listening to others' ideas and trying to understand how some ppl manage to squeeze incredible sounds out of these instruments and picking some tricks here and there is IMO equally important & enjoyable.

On a different note, you don't need to stay for hours and listen to all the songs at once; just do that as ppl upload them, give them a mark and then it's just a matter of filling the voting form - which shouldn't take mre than a few minutes That's what I did for the last OSC That's another thing with OSC: it forces you to be creative and break your routine

[adagiocm]

+1 for crimsonwarlock and solidtrax's points.

Moreover,I find it silly to force voting with the threat of disqualification, because I think it might cause the quality of the votes to suffer. What's to prevent someone from voting on a random basis without spending any time listening to the songs?

[RichardSemper]

+1 for crimsonwarlock solidtrax and adagiocm's points.
-1 for "It's meant to hurt..."

I do enjoy these debates, part of the fun of OSC.
well done IDF for putting the hard line so strongly.

I do agree that the voting is a necessary part (and enjoyable for me) of the competition. Entrants do have a responsibility to take part in this and should be strongly encouraged to do so. After all, its give and take, if you're not prepared to give others feedback on their offerings how can you expect them to do the same?
I would take part if there were no prizes at all! For me the real prize is the feedback received from others - I'm getting my music heard! Its only right that I should do the same in return!

While I cannot imagine taking part without listening, commenting and voting I don't believe this rule is necessary.
And it is contrary to the happy friendly spirit so far found in this competition.

Frankly I was surprised to see this crop up in the vote as I cannot remember where it was previously raised as an issue. It was also unclear what was being voted for, as there was no mention of the existing rule (no prizes). It looked like DQ or nothing.

There have been a few times in recent months when people have reached the top five and not voted, and the issue of prizes going to the next in line was raised. May I suggest bumping the non-voters down to 6th place etc, and adding a comment like 'NOT VOTED' to their entries.

Especially as there was no prior debate, and the result was so close, can we have a revote, with clear options.

[idfpower]

IMO we should make a distinction between someone who normally votes and it just happens one time to miss the voting deadline and someone who doesn't intend to vote at all. I assume we're talking about accidents, and not nasty habits, right

Now here's another reason for voting: there were cases when the top 5 were decided by a difference of just 1 or 2 votes. So in fact 1 vote can decide the result of an OSC... just sayin'...

[V'ger]

Good points on both sides, but the fact remains that the majority wants this new rule.

A reaction for not voting like DQ might seem harsh and perhaps not in the friendly OSC style, but who knows, maybe it ruined the vibe more to have people not reciprocate votes.. It would seem so.

And as pointed out, it is a way to close tactical loopholes as well. It is a friendly competition, but it's still a competition.

I know it's hard to imagine people doing things for underhanded reasons and I agree it sullies things slightly to act as if it is happening, but the truth is that there have been a couple of cases of things not 100% above board. They were slight and in the grand scheme of things with 60 competitions very minute and hardly worth mentioning, but I still think it's better all round just to have all the 'loopholes' closed anyway.

Anyway, there will always be regular rules votes here and then things can be voted out again so nothing have to be permanent if you (the majority) don't like it.

(fwiw I voted no to DQ)

[chilledpanda]

Good points on both sides, but the fact remains that the majority wants this new rule.

A reaction for not voting like DQ might seem harsh and perhaps not in the friendly OSC style, but who knows, maybe it ruined the vibe more to have people not reciprocate votes.. It would seem so.

And as pointed out, it is a way to close tactical loopholes as well. It is a friendly competition, but it's still a competition.

I know it's hard to imagine people doing things for underhanded reasons and I agree it sullies things slightly to act as if it is happening, but the truth is that there have been a couple of cases of things not 100% above board. They were slight and in the grand scheme of things with 60 competitions very minute and hardly worth mentioning, but I still think it's better all round just to have all the 'loopholes' closed anyway.

Anyway, there will always be regular rules votes here and then things can be voted out again so nothing have to be permanent if you (the majority) don't like it.

(fwiw I voted no to DQ)

Hmm I thought tactical voting had been proved to have been ruled a negligible effect on the competition or that was one of the points made for returning to a 1..5 voting system.

But I am with crimsonwarlock, solidtrax, adagiocm's and richard semper on disqualification, just think it will deter those who are unsure and potentially new comers. It kind of changes it from a fun friendly community competition to one with more serious undertones.
On the last 5 I entered into there has only been 1 maybe two who didn't vote, but they posted their apologies, just seems strange that this one came out of nowhere. I think the lack of prizes and the community spirit peer pressure is enough to deter those flyby nights. As for just here for sc plays, I would have thought people just doing that would do better on higher profile remix comps.(no disrespect to osc) as I think OSC is much harder/time consuming than a remix comp.
Take this obxd one, I knew I had didn't a lot of time, so wasn't intending to enter, but I started to play around with obxd and got as far as one half done, but unexpectedly my wife got taken into hospital a couple of weeks before the deadline so it kind of put the stops on it altogether. Anyway just my point is with this rule I wouldn't have even bothered to try, it's hard enough to judge whether you have time for the osc entry without adding the making sure enough voting on top, without the unexpected crap thing that occasionally happens.
I know everyone is busy and while I agree that everyone should vote and I think 99.9% do, hence why I never seen it as an issue, think the formal DQ rule will have a negative effect, simply because it makes people think do I have enough time to do this and vote? As I know I'm really busy over the next couple of months, guess I better stop playing with PolyIblit although I try and make time for the obxd voting.

Actually OSC doesn't seem anymore a "synths" contest neither a "music compositions" contest... but nothing else than a huge "effects" contest!

Agreed, think it is more biased to use effects and production. I don't see this as negative though as it's making me utilise and learn about effects etc, so kind of making me cover all aspects, so works out in my favour as I'm here just to improve and enjoy the community rather than prizes .

But yeah is kind of misleading to new comers. My first entry using cm dominator had a single eq only and strangely still has the most plays on sc than any of my other tracks.

[chilledpanda]

Was "Which new voting system do you prefer?" and "Do you want to vote for the top 5 or top 10 tracks?" a secret vote as I don't remember them on the vote.

[bjporter]

Was "Which new voting system do you prefer?" and "Do you want to vote for the top 5 or top 10 tracks?" a secret vote as I don't remember them on the vote.

The form is set up so if you select a certain option, it opens up a new page for more options. Maybe that should have been more clear.

[crimsonwarlock]

On a different note, you don't need to stay for hours and listen to all the songs at once; just do that as ppl upload them, give them a mark

I do enjoy listening to the OSC tracks, but on my leisure; I've listened to most tracks in ALL previous OSC several times over as I have the OSC-page open often just as a streaming radio with my favorite music It's certainly not a one-off for me.

The point is, that those tracks don't go away AFTER the voting deadline, and are listened to by many people afterwards. That's also one reason I don't like the DQ-rule, as that would make me wonder why that one incredibly good sounding track is now (as in, much later then the actual contest') at the bottom of a listing

[crimsonwarlock]

Good points on both sides, but the fact remains that the majority wants this new rule.

Based on the other reactions here, I start to wonder if this is the majority of the actual voters in that poll, instead of the majority of the actual monthly contestants

Also, it might be interested to see how many voters FOR the DQ-rule have actually participated with several tracks, if any.

[idfpower]

The point is, that those tracks don't go away AFTER the voting deadline, and are listened to by many people afterwards. That's also one reason I don't like the DQ-rule, as that would make me wonder why that one incredibly good sounding track is now (as in, much later then the actual contest') at the bottom of a listing

Well it's not for me to decide, but IMO those tracks should be completely removed from the list, and not just bottomed down with a "DQ" tag next to them. There's no point in keeping them listed and indirectly helping them to gain feedback. But that's just me.

That being said, I still don't get why this is such a touchy subject...every OSC some ppl decide not to participate because they lack the time. And they don't complain about it. Now if you do however decide to join and submit a song, why is it so difficult to save some time for voting? And even when you don't manage to vote, why do you think it's unfair to see your song disqualified? You get feedback & plays during submitting & voting. IMO that's plenty of exposure for not voting...

Try puting yourself in the voter's shoes for a change: how do you think someone feels when he/she listens to all the songs (possibly several times), leaves nice comments on all tracks, and doesn't get any feedback in return 'cause ppl had no time to comment on their track or even worse vote for his/her track. I can tell you it's very discouraging. And not fair - because your time is as important as the next guy's. That is the whole point: we all have our lives and problems and all, but if we want to have a community we have to built it, and we can't do that if we're in and out only when it fits our schedule. Yeah, it's not that awesome to stay up until 4 - 5 in the morning listening to songs and voting ( while your work starts at 7 or 8 ), but sometimes you have to do it if you want to be part of this.