KVR Audio

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon May 30, 2011 9:10 pm

I had a long play with a real MS-20 today and found Andy's versions (both OTA and Diode) on sawtooth much closer to the real deal than e.g. the iMS-20. Gotta listen again tomorrow, maybe in direct comparison.

However, I'd be interested in the sound of two slightly detuned sawtooth oscillators sent through the filter, at different gain settings. That often says more about the actual non-linear behaviour than just a single osc.. (it's also where many emus simply fail, which is not necessarily a problem of the filter though...)

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue May 31, 2011 1:07 am

Hi Urs, thanks for checking out the filter examples! I'll do the demo you asked for with the MS-20 diode with two saws slightly detuned with one at a different volume to the other and email you a link.

Please note that this is really a rev 2 emulation at the moment, with an OTA core, and diode limiter in the feedback only. The rev 1 emulation has two transistors as the voltage controlled resistors for the cutoff - so there is audio signal bleed through of the input signal to the cutoff position, and the diodes are in the main signal path, so you always get a distorted signal. The former I want to emulate as it will add depth, but the latter isn't ideal for processing an entire mix through.

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:22 am

sounds good!

dw

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Tue May 31, 2011 5:04 am

Great. I'd be glad if some software synths had this filter, it's the best one yet. Also very good distortion. If you could reduce the kind of stepped/aliased sound when sweeping (like in Saw Sweep 2), that would be good. It's not the usual obvious stepping, but it's quite different than the smoothness of an analog filter sweep, anyway I'm sure you know what I mean. Overall, I can't say I'd use it instead of some analog filters, but if it was available in software (or digital hardware) synths I'd definitely be satisfied with this sound for the most part at least, so as far as I'm concerned that's great success. Thanks for the proper, "boring" samples.

mystran · Post by **mystran** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:26 am

Are these samples from your DSP code or the originals?

[edit: yeah and I'm joking, but point is, they sound really nice]

DaveGamble · Post by **DaveGamble** » Tue May 31, 2011 10:34 am

andy_cytomic wrote:
DaveGamble wrote:Wow. This sounds unbelievably heavy! Can't wait!

Dave.
Hey Dave! It's going to sound even more heavy once I add analog modelled self noise and smooth asymmetry control to mess things up even further

*drooling quietly with excitement*

Dave.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:25 pm

Shy wrote:Great. I'd be glad if some software synths had this filter, it's the best one yet. Also very good distortion. If you could reduce the kind of stepped/aliased sound when sweeping (like in Saw Sweep 2), that would be good. It's not the usual obvious stepping, but it's quite different than the smoothness of an analog filter sweep, anyway I'm sure you know what I mean. Overall, I can't say I'd use it instead of some analog filters, but if it was available in software (or digital hardware) synths I'd definitely be satisfied with this sound for the most part at least, so as far as I'm concerned that's great success. Thanks for the proper, "boring" samples.

Hi Shy. Thanks for taking the time to listen to the early demos! The stepping you hear is caused by me using a sticky midi controller with a fixed 10 hz low pass filter, I'll be implementing a cool (optional) dynamic smoothing algorithm for incoming midi and automation which will clean that all up. All modulators internally run at audio rate.

As computers become more and more powerful then using the kind of maths I'm doing in The Dop will become an option for synths, but it does take some cpu to get this kind of tone.

Vectorman · Post by **Vectorman** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:39 pm

I'd be glad if some software synths had this filter

That was my first thought listening to the examples. Would be rather cool if Omnisphere (or even Kontakt) had these at their disposal. I'd imagine multi-sampled Oberheim oscillators run through the state variable filter from The Drop could sound quite nice. One could at least do some mono stuff by using The Drop in a plugin chain with an existing synth or sampler, though.

realmarco · Post by **realmarco** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:52 am

has anyone any ideas how we could use this on anything BUT drumloops ?

Liero · Post by **Liero** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:42 pm

After listening to some new audio demos I am more intrigued (the sawfm2 demo is great), the biggest question for me now however is whether there will be native 64-bit support?

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:17 am

Liero wrote:After listening to some new audio demos I am more intrigued (the sawfm2 demo is great), the biggest question for me now however is whether there will be native 64-bit support?

Doesn't The Glue already offer 64-bit support? I'd expect the same formats to be supported in this plugin.

For me the big questions are:

1. How's that Moog filter coming along?
2. Can someone send Andy a Sherman Filterbank schematic?
3. When will these get ported back into D-CAM?
4. I noticed Urs in this thread, he's someone who doesn't mind mind burning a CPU up to get great sound...OMG Andy, are you going to license him some filter code? That'd be rad too!

K...I'm all out of questions for now.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:28 am

Andy,
wow my man, just had a listen to those demos and I'm loving the sound!

Some very meaty sweeps there. Congrats on the new plug.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:05 am

Liero wrote:After listening to some new audio demos I am more intrigued (the sawfm2 demo is great), the biggest question for me now however is whether there will be native 64-bit support?

Yes, as FET has pointed out (perhaps no coincidence with that acronym considering his in depth knowledge of the 1176!) - just like with The Glue, The Drop will be 64-bit VST 2.4 and AU. There are currently no plans for VST3 support.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:39 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:For me the big questions are:

1. How's that Moog filter coming along?

I've got an initial non-linear but "perfect" version of it up and cranking, and it is sounding very promising, but... (as very sensibly suggested by someone) I've decided that for initial release I'm just going to stick to the KHN (eg SEM-1A), and Sallen Key (eg MS-20) with a couple of different non-linear forms of these structures, and then add some more filter types as I go along. This means I can release The Drop earlier, and spend more time on each filter model as I go.

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:2. Can someone send Andy a Sherman Filterbank schematic?

I don't believe this schematic is in the public domain, but I also don't believe there are any official plugin versions of this device, so that to me says the door of opportunity is still open. Collaborating with third parties is something I would love to tack in the future, but for now I'm going to stick to releasing The Drop with some older filters that do have schematics in the public domain.

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:3. When will these get ported back into D-CAM?

No. The D-CAM filters will remain as they are. The algorithms in The Drop require considerably more cpu as they solve the non-linear filter equations "implicitly", so there is no feedback delay, and there is perfect frequency and phase tracking at cutoff which means they don't need to be oversampled for full range operation. As a result the sound much closer to analog filters when modulated and driven.

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:4. I noticed Urs in this thread, he's someone who doesn't mind mind burning a CPU up to get great sound...OMG Andy, are you going to license him some filter code? That'd be rad too!

I will be releasing my own synthesizers in the future, so I don't plan on licensing any of the algorithms that I'm using in The Drop. I already dreamt up the first of these synths before finishing The Glue, but things take time, and I wanted a break from doing synths after the long slog of working on Synth Squad.

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:K...I'm all out of questions for now.

Well as soon as you have more let me know, I love answering good questions

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:43 am

himalaya wrote:Andy,
wow my man, just had a listen to those demos and I'm loving the sound!

Some very meaty sweeps there. Congrats on the new plug.

Thanks Himalaya!

Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter