KVR Audio

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:45 pm

And just for a laugh here's an attempt at turning my saw PWM to a supersaw PWM with chorus and a bit of reverb (with apologies to Roland afficionados):D

http://www.box.net/shared/saaj1qhpz6032ai4f3hi

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:05 pm

Ha ha, we started to... ok - another interesting (on the fly...). No LFOs.
Maybe tonight when I have the time, I'll really try to rep. EBS's wave...

EDIT: now stereo mp3
Here you go: https://sites.google.com/site/zornikokv ... sy1ex2.mp3

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:10 pm

cytospur wrote:And just for a laugh here's an attempt at turning my saw PWM to a supersaw PWM with chorus and a bit of reverb (with apologies to Roland afficionados):D
http://www.box.net/shared/saaj1qhpz6032ai4f3hi

Very nice! You really spreaded it

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:13 pm

Thanks

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:26 pm

Ok, here's my contribution. I used Noisemaker, because it's chunky sound suits it, but any synth with ringmod/AM, sync and PWM will do.

On the left is a sawtooth being AM'ed by an octave higher variable pulse. The other two columns show a similar effect with triangle and noise waves. Note you can alter the pitch of the pulse smoothly if you have sync enabled, allowing a whole family of rasping sounds to be made.

Note that this isn't quite like the roland waveform, because in the manual diagram, the two 'sections' that the saw is cut into, are not equidistant. Therefore the best thing to do is load up Zebralette and simply recreate the waveform exactly as you see it

I do have the Noisemaker patch if anyone wants it, but I don't know how to attatch it.

EDIT: Here's a question maybe for Urs or anyone else interested in obscure Roland waveforms that has a JP-8000. It's Triangle waveform has a PWM parameter (NOT the triangle mod waveform) which seems like it's doing some gentle cross between FM and PWM to the triangle wave... Anyone got any clue what's going on with it? (I can make a waveform diagram if needed)

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:35 pm

hi,

Here's the Alpha Juno PWM-Saw:

http://www.u-he.com/music/AlphaSawPWM.wav

It has a considerable amount of bass boost from the HP filter.

Interesting enough, it goes from about 5% to about 95% - I stand corrected!

Also, unlike their drawing suggests, the "cut out" is equal distance.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:20 pm

Well that's the Juno-style waveform pretty much solved... but the D-110 one is still quite mysterious... Here's something I found in the manual regarding PWM:

A sawtooth waveform is produced by processing a square waveform at the TVF, consequently, even a sawtooth waveform can be controlled with the Pulse Width.

If this is correct, and not just typical Roland misinformation regarding sound production, then somehow the filter is doing something to turn the square into the saw? Some kind of filter FM perhaps? I can see how ramping down the volume at audio frequency would create a saw shape, but doing it with a filter seems like a bit of a stretch...

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:39 pm

Sendy wrote:On the left is a sawtooth being AM'ed by an octave higher variable pulse.

This looks exactly like Roland's picture. But REAL Roland does not

Something is really strange here

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:01 pm

Sendy wrote:any synth with ringmod/AM, sync and PWM will do.

This is probably the best "general" conclusion.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:19 pm

zorniko wrote:
Sendy wrote:On the left is a sawtooth being AM'ed by an octave higher variable pulse.
This looks exactly like Roland's picture. But REAL Roland does not
Something is really strange here

Probably because neither my example nor Roland's diagram take into account the HPF that followed the oscillator, which will add ripples and distortion to the waveform (but not really change the sound noticably that much).

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:22 pm

Sendy wrote:Probably because neither my example nor Roland's diagram take into account the HPF that followed the oscillator

Of course, that was kind-of joke. But still, things ARE strange.

bstageboss · Post by **bstageboss** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:48 pm

Here are the examples I was talking to zorniko about:

http://www.box.net/shared/b99d4rtj13rjz8r2187o

All of these are a sweep through the Saw PWM from minimum asymmetry (50%) to whatever goes for maximum. I've tried to match the volumes somewhat.

1)Roland Alpha Juno 1 (using the alpha dial from 0 to 127)

2)Roland D-50 (using aftertouch -> WG PW)

3)Xils Labs Synthix (using modwheel ->PWM)

4)Linplug Alpha 3 (using modwheel -> symmetry)

As you can hear, they're all quite different. (I'll have to pass it on to my esteemed colleague zorniko to show images of the waveforms, since his pictures look nicer than anything I have at my disposal.)

But the results are clear: The D-50 wave tends to get much more nasal towards the higher asymmetries compared to both soft synths, with Alpha 3 getting some of the qualities, but not nearly to the same degree. Synthix seems to fade to a straightforward sawtooth and the Juno 1 tends to emphasize/de-emphasize different overtones (no lower octave fade-in here).

Most likely some sort of a sampled wavetable/wave-morphing oscillator would be the best way to emulate the D-50 (or D-110, in EBP's case) saw pulsewidth sweep, so it sounds like a task relegated to the u-he Zebra family as the best option for success. There are undoubtedly other options a well, but I'll leave those for others to discover and point out.

In any case, I've very much enjoyed this thread so far, guys. This kind of discussion is (for me) KVR at it's best.

Thanks,

STV

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:11 pm

bstageboss wrote:Here are the examples I was talking to zorniko about:

http://www.box.net/shared/b99d4rtj13rjz8r2187o

All of these are a sweep through the Saw PWM from minimum asymmetry (50%) to whatever goes for maximum. I've tried to match the volumes somewhat.

1)Roland Alpha Juno 1 (using the alpha dial from 0 to 127)

2)Roland D-50 (using aftertouch -> WG PW)

3)Xils Labs Synthix (using modwheel ->PWM)

4)Linplug Alpha 3 (using modwheel -> symmetry)

...I've very much enjoyed this thread so far, guys. This kind of discussion is (for me) KVR at it's best.

+1 for that

1

2

3

4

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:33 pm

bstageboss wrote: ...I've very much enjoyed this thread so far, guys. This kind of discussion is (for me) KVR at it's best.

+1

One of the best threads in a long time

Cheers
Dennis

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:38 pm

Urs's Alpha Juno example:

Is there any synth that can do roland's Saw PWM?