KVR Audio

Agility · Post by **Agility** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:47 pm

Hi, I'm producing Early/Mid 80s post disco/boogie/funk, whatever you want to call it and have produced quite a few tracks but lacking on the production/mixing side.

I've got some example tracks here and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on how to get this sound. It's the really punchy/deep/subby kicks.. I've been working with good quality samples of drum machines like the Roland 505/707, OBerheim DMX, Linn Drum and from stock they don't seem to have this type of depth. I'm working completely ITB btw.

PS: I know the quality isn't the best, vinyl ripped and then youtube compression, still good enough to hear what I'm talking about though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxG3hrTU8L8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbhcQxm6 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd8JWyMZGT0

I've picked these because they are 3 of my favourites from these genres and represnt the type of mix/production as far as drums go that I want to achieve.

So really, how do I get that 'depth' in the low end? You listen and you can hear full the low end is and how punchy the kicks are, it's like they're more thuddy than hitting in the higher area, how do they do this because the stock drums are nothing like this.

I've analyzed some of them with a spectrum analyzer and the thud of the kick goes strong all the way down to like 30hz in a few of the tracks. A stock machine drum sample sounds fickle in comparison.

Does anyone know what/how they were getting these hard drums back then? Tape saturation etc?

I heard a popular technique back in the day was to gate a sine wave playing about 50-60hz to the kick to add some sub, I've tried that but it isn't quite working.

Just adding low end to the kick only helps so much after a bit it just gets muddy. I've found Ferox helps to strengthen the kick and I do use some Parrallel compression sometimes.

Also another point is, sometimes for fun I turn up the low end on the master buss a few db and suddenly the low end fills out. Everyone says 'fix it in the mix' so is this really bad practice?

Anyway I've rambled on enough, maybe I'm looking too much into it but I know some of the things I've tried aren't ending up with this sound that I want.

Also if anyone else is producing this style get in touch.

Any help advice appreciated, thanks.

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:17 pm

First link doesn't work

Anyway, it's the Oberheim DMX all over these tracks. You can find free samples quite a few places. I did and I used them on this track. Sorta the same style as you links. Some EQ and light Compression added and just a touch of reverb too. Don't overdo the latter.
http://soundcloud.com/kbeesmusic/k-bee-the-system

It's damn hard nailing the 80s funk sound.

istyle · Post by **istyle** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:36 pm

I'm not a danceguru so i maybe wrong but i think dancestyle like this has a lot to do with attack emphasizing of each sample when you mix,kik,bass ,you gotta bring out their attacks and maybe gating some if they're too long.Then use drumbus compression again to pump it more

Agility · Post by **Agility** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:23 pm

K-Bee wrote:First link doesn't work

Anyway, it's the Oberheim DMX all over these tracks. You can find free samples quite a few places. I did and I used them on this track. Sorta the same style as you links. Some EQ and light Compression added and just a touch of reverb too. Don't overdo the latter.
http://soundcloud.com/kbeesmusic/k-bee-the-system

It's damn hard nailing the 80s funk sound.

It seems you're right about the DMX, at first I was thinking nahh can't be, I've played with them before but I listened to my samples again and your spot on! Not only are they used in these tracks but by Pendulum the DnB act, I remember banging my head against the wall trying to recreate their kick and snare years ago with an 808 for the kick lol and they've basically just processed the DMX kit.

You're funk piece is not bad, kinda cool, Saw you post it on GS before when I was searching. got any other bits??

Still, I'm curious what processing they've used, the stock drums are punchy yet flimsy, they have no weight.

istyle, you have a point, I've actually just started playing with transient designers and they're helping alot, seems like a necessary tool to gettting a pro sound!

Cheers guys. I'll post up some clips maybe

LBN · Post by **LBN** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:11 pm

On a lot of those tracks the snare is beefed up with the clap triggering at the same time to give it a bit more "crack" on the high-end. Sometimes some EQing and light compression is necessary to get them to sit together. The kick drum is also being shadowed by a heavy analog bass. It helps create the illusion of a thicker kick drum. Another common trick was to take a low tom and pitch it down even more so it was in tune with the kick. Information Society used this combination (kick-bass-tom) to great effect on songs like "What's On Your Mind":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss6vUraHFIw

paradiddle · Post by **paradiddle** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:29 pm

Information society - seriously, that's a trip back in memory lane. I haven't heard that in a long time.

Thanks for the time travel!

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:37 am

Agility wrote:You're funk piece is not bad, kinda cool, Saw you post it on GS before when I was searching. got any other bits??

Thanks. GS = GearSlutz I reckon?
Anyway, all my music (17 tracks) are at my soundcloud, ranging from 80s electro funk to more jazzy and acoustic sounding jams. A few entries from the One synth challenges are there as well.

Best example of the DMX sounds in use I know of it this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luyZvWVrLLk

Brilliant song and great arrangement. The Temps rarely did something wrong. A bit of reverb and, as mentioned, light compression is needed to get the sound. When completely dry they do not have much impact.

Agility · Post by **Agility** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:43 pm

LBN: Love that Information Society, one of my favourite tracks.

K-Bee: Great track *adds to youtube favourites*

Really nice mix although I do prefer how the drums hit harder in my examples, however I'm not sure if that's because how/what its been recorded of and maybe boosted the low end, atleast on The Limit track and the From Time track.

I'll peruse your tracks sometime. You from the US?

Discovering that it's the DMX drums I like the most I'm gonna have to go through alot of my tracks and change them to them lol.

It was this track that led me to believe the DMX was a no go for the sound of Drums I wanted but obviously it's cause of how it's been mixed. Amazing track though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x7DlZyUQcQ

Cheers. Shall post some work soon for critique if I don't manage to get the drums hitting like I want!

bwwd · Post by **bwwd** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:38 pm

I think weird drums will do the job as well, just check this, its on Ensoniq synth, its vsti version is amazing for this type of sounds from 80's.It was mostly about the bass not drums if you ask me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DiXuvkiH-c

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:08 am

Agility wrote:I'll peruse your tracks sometime. You from the US?

No, although my music sound very american, I know

I'm from Denmark....a real funk desert

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:21 am

Most of the processing from back in the 80s would have been parametric EQ, a nice compressor such as a Urei, layering a sine with the kick or clap with the snare, and a touch of Lexicon reverb.

Agility · Post by **Agility** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:21 pm

OK, LONG time since posting here thanks for the responses, spent ALOT of time trying to get the side of the records, had a few aha moments along the way where I thought I got it but I didn't.

Anyway I just recently learned that more than any compression, eq whatever, tape is the answer.

I got a very old, great sounding(well that's the issue, it is and it isn't) Studer impulse(originally from Beamsonic, free online) that does the sound exactly but there are issues with it, ie the noise. So I'm trying to replicate it with tape plugs, I've tried all the relevant plugs I can get my hands on and they all fall short, they can't seem to do what the impulse is doing to the attack, like it's rounding it off, clearly noticeable on the snare and the kick.

Looking to get some suggestions from someone who knows how I can do this plug ITB.

Clip is original DMX drums and then Tape(Impulse).

Listen here:

EDIT, Proper link:
http://picosong.com/3PiZ/

Any advice appreciated.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:09 pm

I've never been entirely satisfied with any tape simulations, although I'm sure someone else will chime in with their favorites. You're absolutely correct, or course... "back in the day", everyone used to record pretty hot onto the 24 track, so you'd get that nice tape compression and saturation as part of the sound. I used to record drums at +6db all the time, sometimes even a little hotter.

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:25 pm

I've never used a tape sim in my life. Should I start? I'm not even sure I'd be able to hear the difference, but who knows.

GeckoYamori · Post by **GeckoYamori** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:06 pm

For tape saturation there's the new free Vintager Toy which sounds good in my ears.

Don't forget to also try moving around the kick or snare/claps a bit, delaying them a couple of miliseconds. This can do a lot for the feel of the drums.

Also instead of claps over the snare you can try programming some filtered white noise to cover the high end, or get some Simmons samples.

The early 80's is an interesting period as people were entering the digital age but many, and I'm guessing especially a lot of poorer black studios still relied a lot on older analog gear for processing. It's a nice "transitional" era between the 70's and full on 80's.

Early 80s drum machine processing boogie/funk related