M4 Test

[mutools]

I think "MUSESSION -> New" could be renamed to "MUSESSION -> Clear Session" to it less confusing and it's what it actually does.

What about MuSession -> "Renew"?

That keeps the link with the new function (and the New.MuSession feature) but gives a difference at the same time.

So we would have:

MuLab menu -> New Session
MuSession menu -> Renew

[pljones]

I think "renew" is too much like "revert". (I don't care much for "revert" tbh - I'm having a think on that, too. "Reload"?) What does it actually do? Throw the current session away and create a new one? "Replace with new" Delete all the session content? "Delete all" Hmmm...

For a multi-document interface, "New" implies a new instance of the document type, with no effect on the current document.

[janamdo]

And where should the "Quit" function be placed?
I won't put it under MUSESSION as that makes no sense for Quit is not a MuSession function but a MuLab function.

I am working in a session or a multisession and than i do want to stop ..i save the session(s) ..and than i quit
Do you want have a separate button next to mussession : QUIT ..no

[janamdo]

So "New" in Musession and "New session" on startup screen are different than? With new session you can open more than one session in Mulab

Exactly. That's one of the new features in M4.
In fact you requested this yourself some time ago in a post where you wanted to be able to make a kind of library. Well, using multiple sessions you can achieve this.

Nice feature to work with multiple sessions on say 2 screens
example : study example sessions and practice in a another session

[Nielzie]

Why not have each of them tabbed in the main Windows bar if more then one session is open? For easy switching and copying between them. That would be very nice and useful!!

Multiple session windows do appear as separate buttons on the taskbar, so you must mean something else. Which "Windows bar" do you mean?

Besides this future-oriented question, the answer at this point is that i don't have any time left to implement new things. I still have too much to do with stabelizing, polishing, optimizing and documenting M4. So this tabbed sessions idea could be a nice M4.x/M5 topic.

I mean as Tabs such as implemented here:



Preferably next to or below the MULAB and MUSESSION buttons.

I'm not a fan of many buttons cluddered in my windows taksbar, like back in the days when every webpage in a browser was openen in a new Window because they didn't have tabs yet.

[Nielzie]

I think "MUSESSION -> New" could be renamed to "MUSESSION -> Clear Session" to it less confusing and it's what it actually does.

What about MuSession -> "Renew"?

That keeps the link with the new function (and the New.MuSession feature) but gives a difference at the same time.

So we would have:

MuLab menu -> New Session
MuSession menu -> Renew

Sounds good to me. Or perhaps "Initialize"?

[janamdo]

What do you think of the separate "MULAB" menu button near the "MUSESSION" menu button?

Yes also a idea, but i like the have the choice when i open a session this as a single session(=new) or multisession file

So a condition for a multisession file is that there is already one or more sessions files are open..if not than there is no multisession

[Trancit]

Stooooooooooop!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but to all here, please wait a moment...

It's getting more and more confusing and for me personally, it goes to the complete wrong direction...
Please, lets stop a moment and think again about this topic...

I personally believe, that Jo was right in doing it this way...

MuLab is changing at the moment and now we got two complete different things here:

1. We got an application level, which is valid for all further steps

All stuff, belonging to this overall level has to stay here...

2. We got a MuSession level...

All stuff belonging to individual sessions, has to be here...

And that's exactly, how Jo did it...and it's correct and logical...

Even, if it needs a little bit of changing your point of view, but it's a very good step to seperate the level...

Please be absolutely honest: is reaching the VST-Manager by the MuLab application window such a big deal, that Jo has to do all upside down...

The Vst-Manager belongs to the application level, because it changes Vst-Options for all sessions and what's so bad about scanning your Vstfolder once as you start your work with MuLab...
Btw, every host does this...here it's only half automatic, which has it's advantages as well...

I would like to see no changes here...if you read this topic step by step, the "wished improvements" are starting to confuse something, which was different but correct before...

Please @all, think about that a little bit, before posting.

[Trancit]

I had a quick look at MuDrum, but could really use a small tutorial or something to get me started as I haven't found out yet what I can do with it and how it actually works. I guess at this stage the M4 manuals/tutorials are yet to be released, right?

Here you go for a little starters tutorial:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/27 ... MuDrum.pdf

Hey thanks for that! I really appreciate your effort

You're welcome

[janamdo]

Stooooooooooop!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but to all here, please wait a moment...

It's getting more and more confusing and for me personally, it goes to the complete wrong direction...
Please, lets stop a moment and think again about this topic...

I personally believe, that Jo was right in doing it this way...

MuLab is changing at the moment and now we got two complete different things here:

1. We got an application level, which is valid for all further steps

All stuff, belonging to this overall level has to stay here...

2. We got a MuSession level...

All stuff belonging to individual sessions, has to be here...

And that's exactly, how Jo did it...and it's correct and logical...

No.. i don't like the idea to have 2 menu's on different places in the program and covering the MULAB logo.
So for me 2 buttons are enough together
MULAB -> application level
MUSESSION --> session level

I like to see all sessions altogether (single and multi)in the musession menu

[mutools]

There is an updated M4 package in the same webfolder (cfr the first M4 email).

There also is a log file in that webfolder with all changes since M4.0.62.

Wrt the separate MuLab application menu window:
The M4 feedback here and via email (thanks!) pointed out that this separate window was not very liked. I can understand the feeling. But i wanted to preserve the logic. So the separate window has gone and has been replaced by an extra MULAB menu button near the SESSION menu button.
This makes everything more integrated while preserving the logic.
And extra advantage of this new way is that the same startup procedure is used as in M3 and so it's faster from launch to working on your latest session.
And new users will also immediately startup within the session window, not with a 'abstract' application menu window. So i'm convinced

I did not yet change any menu options like the discussed "Revert" and "New" etc.
Will give that some more reflection time. It's an easy thing to change, no prob.

I first want to know whether you guys feel comfortable with the new main menu approach. Does this feel ok?

[pljones]

Yes, the MULAB button / Session button feels more natural.

The default session instruments are a great idea... but the Stand In piano (in the session) has been saved with its modules turned off. Was that intentional? Also, just following this in the rack is a "Send to nothing". Can the target of a send be changed? I don't see how...

On the VST Plug-In Manager, multi-select with Shift doesn't work (does with Ctrl) - so if you have several sequential plugins (like all the Kjaerhus Classics) you have to click one at a time, rather than just first and shift-click last. Minor point .

Also, with a selection, if you click on the first it lets you set the group. Otherwise, it loses the group selection. (Picky details at this stage...)

Why does the Choose Instrument panel have a virtual keyboard when MuTools is selected but not VST or ReWire?

Hmm. Nielzie could be right about the tabs for multiple sessions... Certainly worth thinking about. Not from a clutter perspective but to make it quicker to see what's going on.

In MuDrum (wow, by the way!), it'd be nice if selecting an effect unit highlighted the input wiring.

Also in MuDrum, in the element 3 deep editor, I can't stretch the window wide enough on my widescreen to see all the parameters and the horizontal scrollbar doesn't scroll them. I also can't span the window across to my second monitor - it snaps down to fit within the one screen.

And also in element 3, having set up a patch in the deep editor once, the next time I get the "Custom UI" style editor and can't use tab to get into the full deep editor view... (Options, Editor, Show Deep Editor works, though.)

And... I'm not sure what the UI in element 3 is displaying... It has sixteen dial holes, which I thought might match to deep editor Parameter dial controls but my custom patch parameter doesn't show there - just the last use parameter is listed (but uneditable) at the top.

And finally... I guess there's no chance of Element 1 and Element 2 becoming full multi-sampler modules..?

[robenestobenz]

I first want to know whether you guys feel comfortable with the new main menu approach. Does this feel ok?

It feels very logical and comfy to me. Although I could imagine the thinking behind a separate, global menu, I found it quite awkward and non-standard. This fits nicely.

Also in MuDrum, in the element 3 deep editor, I can't stretch the window wide enough on my widescreen to see all the parameters and the horizontal scrollbar doesn't scroll them.

Right click+drag works, same as everywhere in the app (the virtual keyboards too). Not sure why it loads up with so many params though...

[pljones]

Two more, related:
1) Several of the demo sessions cause me CPU overload. I have an AMD Phenom 9650 Quad-core running at 2.3GHz with 4GB RAM on Windows 7. Should the demos be that demanding?
2) Quitting with OVERLOAD on the CPU meter doesn't work ("Internal thread timeout error" or similar).

Also in MuDrum, in the element 3 deep editor, I can't stretch the window wide enough on my widescreen to see all the parameters and the horizontal scrollbar doesn't scroll them.

Right click+drag works, same as everywhere in the app (the virtual keyboards too). Not sure why it loads up with so many params though...

Aha! I hadn't thought to try drag-scrolling it! Thanks.

Actually, all the deep editors with 16 parameters have this problem. Being able to toggle back to just the dials would be handy to save on screen real-estate.

[mutools]

The default session instruments are a great idea... but the Stand In piano (in the session) has been saved with its modules turned off. Was that intentional?

Yes.

Also, just following this in the rack is a "Send to nothing".

I can't repeat this. Are you sure you didn't delete the echo or reverb rack before then?

Can the target of a send be changed? I don't see how...

Using the modular editor. (SMA)

On the VST Plug-In Manager, multi-select with Shift doesn't work (does with Ctrl) - so if you have several sequential plugins (like all the Kjaerhus Classics) you have to click one at a time, rather than just first and shift-click last. Minor point .

Implemented in the next version.

Also, with a selection, if you click on the first it lets you set the group. Otherwise, it loses the group selection.

Yeah, it's a bit quircky, sorry, don't see a quick fix atm for this but added to the wishlist.

Why does the Choose Instrument panel have a virtual keyboard when MuTools is selected but not VST or ReWire?

Because MU-patches can be quickly monitored, VSTs/Rewire not.
It would also need to open the vets editor to select programs etc and that goes beyond the scope of that panel.

And also in element 3, having set up a patch in the deep editor once, the next time I get the "Custom UI" style editor and can't use tab to get into the full deep editor view... (Options, Editor, Show Deep Editor works, though.)

The hard-wired TAB has gone.
You can setup a double TAB shortcut "Show Play Editor" and "Show Deep Editor".

And... I'm not sure what the UI in element 3 is displaying... It has sixteen dial holes, which I thought might match to deep editor Parameter dial controls but my custom patch parameter doesn't show there - just the last use parameter is listed (but uneditable) at the top.

They should show the meta-parameters of the E3 patch.

And finally... I guess there's no chance of Element 1 and Element 2 becoming full multi-sampler modules..?

No because that would kill the easiness of E1/E2 which is essential.
If you want to use multisamplers in a MuPad, E3 is the unlimited way