KVR Audio

BITWORD · Post by **BITWORD** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:04 am

Anyone using a BluRay burner for data backup?

What are your experiences?

Media seems expensive, but storage looks good!

How long does it take to burn a 25gb data disc, or for that matter, a 50gb disc?

Comments please

Thanks!
Marc

BITWORD · Post by **BITWORD** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:35 pm

Bump - anyone? nobody using these yet? maybe that says something..

Cheers,
m

Music Engineer · Post by **Music Engineer** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:46 pm

don't have blue ray yet. to consider it as backup medium, the most crucial question for me would be data integrity, security, robustness and long term persistence. i could live with longer burning times. in fact, when burning backup DVDs, i mostly choose the slowest speed (because i believe that this improves the integrity of the written data - i might be wrong, though)

metamorphosis · Post by **metamorphosis** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:47 pm

I just compress stuff using wavpack and backup onto DVD. Sure it's more tedious but it makes backups more regular.

Bluray just isn't at the same price-point per GB at the moment - not even close - so it's not an attractive option for most people -
hard drives are cheaper.
Cheers,
Matt

BITWORD · Post by **BITWORD** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:06 am

Thanks for the input guys! I always burn more that 1 of any backup, 2 minimum, 3 if it is really important. Problem is, I have so much data that I would like to keep the discs down to a minimum, and most projects exceed the 4.3gb of a DVD.

I keep telling myself, someday they will make some massive jump in storage that will solve this!

I'd just use more HDs, but call me weird, just don't trust magnetic media (knock on wood

)

I hope someone is doing R&D on 100gb dvd style disc backup

..um, that is affordable...

Cheers,
Marc

metamorphosis · Post by **metamorphosis** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:17 pm

Again, have you considered audio compression?
Flac, wavpack or just plain 7-zip (slower but much the same compression ratio)?
I usually do two backups as well, two different DVD media typically.

BITWORD · Post by **BITWORD** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:57 pm

metamorphosis wrote:Again, have you considered audio compression?
Flac, wavpack or just plain 7-zip (slower but much the same compression ratio)?
I usually do two backups as well, two different DVD media typically.

I have considered it, but the thing that keeps me from doing it is the same thing that keeps me from burning spanning discs via toast, I just portion them all myself. The fear I have is that I might need to access that data X years down the line, and the functionality of the software that has compressed it, has disappeared or changed, is buggy, is too platform dependent, etc. So, if I create something today, compress it, and 5 or 10 years from now I need to find it, I have to also hope it decompresses, and in the same way. It's just one more tool to worry about

I've had more corrupted archives than disc, so it's something I want to keep out of the equation. Also, the time involved is sort of discouraging.

I really dream of a DVD type 100+ gb disc. That would be a great step forward in storage!

Someday, I hope to be able to take all of my old CDs of data, and dump them over to a larger format. Then the DVDs will follow. Data management is a nightmare at times.

Makes me wonder sometimes, what happens when I'm an old man, and eventually die, what happens to all the data? Who will I will it to, and what kind of jungle will it be for them to look at... And at that point, does it really matter

Cheers!
Marc

metamorphosis · Post by **metamorphosis** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:34 am

Quite frankly, .flac is about as likely to go out of existence as .wav is, so either way, you're f**ked in 50 years time.

Compress using .flac and don't worry so much.
It only compresses individual wav files, and has it's own front-end for ease of use.
7-zip I only suggested in case you wanted something more commonplace.

Also, blu-ray will be far more volatile than DVD for the same reason that DVD is far more volatile than CD - exponentially more data per CM.

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:43 am

Why don't you just use regular HDs for backup ? I just checked the prices here in Sweden and 10 25 Gb blue ray disks were more expensive than a 1 Tb HD. So per gigabyte they're 4 times as expensive (not counting the actual blue ray burner) and a lot more hassle. Why bother ?

Music Engineer · Post by **Music Engineer** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:39 am

just wanted to start a thread and ask for the best bluray burner for backup purposes, then i found this old one and thought it would be better to revive it. i'm currently considering (again) to get a bluray burner for backup purposes - prices are down to below a 100 € for an internal device.

can anyone around here recommend me specific device that is good with respect to data safety, longevity, etc.?

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:45 am

It's really a shame how cd's and dvd's don't last very long. I suspect Blurays don't either and I would never use them for serious backupping. I have dozens of coasters now, some of them are only 2 years old and the data is unreadable! And yes I've used high quality media and burnt at slowest speeds. What a shame!!!

ermi · Post by **ermi** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:26 pm

jupiter8 wrote:Why don't you just use regular HDs for backup ? I just checked the prices here in Sweden and 10 25 Gb blue ray disks were more expensive than a 1 Tb HD. So per gigabyte they're 4 times as expensive (not counting the actual blue ray burner) and a lot more hassle. Why bother ?

This.
Not only are HDDs cheaper, they are also more convenient and you can overwrite them easily etc.
Get something with USB 3 and you have something that's also much faster. (Although even USB 2 is faster than burning to optical media.)

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:46 pm

ermi wrote:
jupiter8 wrote:Why don't you just use regular HDs for backup ? I just checked the prices here in Sweden and 10 25 Gb blue ray disks were more expensive than a 1 Tb HD. So per gigabyte they're 4 times as expensive (not counting the actual blue ray burner) and a lot more hassle. Why bother ?
This.
Not only are HDDs cheaper, they are also more convenient and you can overwrite them easily etc.
Get something with USB 3 and you have something that's also much faster. (Although even USB 2 is faster than burning to optical media.)

Actually, they're about the same price these days.

I just ordered 4 spindles of Verbatim BR discs, 20 discs per spindle, at $26 each. 23GB per disc, 1840GB for $104. I also ordered a couple of 7200 2TB drives at $125 each.

BR discs are convenient when you've got large video or audio sessions and want to mail them off to people. My important data goes on a mirrored external RAID array. If anything happens (like a fire), I can turn it off, unplug it, and take it with me. (Providing I'm home, of course.

)

They're also handy for making boot drive images.

timobrien · Post by **timobrien** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:51 pm

penguinfromdeep wrote:It's really a shame how cd's and dvd's don't last very long. I suspect Blurays don't either and I would never use them for serious backupping. I have dozens of coasters now, some of them are only 2 years old and the data is unreadable! And yes I've used high quality media and burnt at slowest speeds. What a shame!!!

Sorry but I've got CDs that are nearly 20 years old that are still fine.
I made them back when 1x burners were $3000 and blanks were $25 EACH.
Still readable.

Maybe you should reconsider how you're storing them....

crazed one · Post by **crazed one** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:40 pm

timobrien wrote:
penguinfromdeep wrote:It's really a shame how cd's and dvd's don't last very long. I suspect Blurays don't either and I would never use them for serious backupping. I have dozens of coasters now, some of them are only 2 years old and the data is unreadable! And yes I've used high quality media and burnt at slowest speeds. What a shame!!!
Sorry but I've got CDs that are nearly 20 years old that are still fine.
I made them back when 1x burners were $3000 and blanks were $25 EACH.
Still readable.

Maybe you should reconsider how you're storing them....

Can you share how you've been storing yours?

I've run into the same problem over the years of CDs getting corrupted over time. I have been under the impression that CDs degrade and aren't always dependable after 4 or 5 years due the organic material (according to wikipedia) that is used in them. I was under the impression that it was a form of wax. Therefore temperature variations, that occur in most houses- like when a disc is being used in a device, will allow the compounds in the disc to shrink and expand destroying the integrity over time.

BluRay Burners for backup Qs