Help identifying a percussion sample

[bpdl]

Hi,

I've been trying to figure out the origin of the hard mallet/struck sampled instrument used in James Horner's Jumanji. The percussionist remembered nothing about it, but I found out elsewhere that it could be from a Roland sampler from the early 90's. Link: ~~See Below~~

Can anyone here help?

[monkeyweasel]

sounds like a deadened marimba or something

[bpdl]

Three months later:

I dampened a marimba and it didn't sound like the sample used in the clip. I've heard all kinds of possibilities for it: angklungs, sticks, bones, and slit drums etc. but none of those are close. I wish somebody knew of it's origin. It's a cool sound that I think could be put to great use 15 years later

[monkeyweasel]

ummm, well, I'd remove angklung from your list, cos I have some of them and I dont see how they could sound like that.


Not that I can actually remember what "that" actually sounded like after 3 months, but if at the time i thought it might be a deadened marimba then I doubt it could be achieved with angklung.

[bpdl]

The percussionist who used it doesn't even have a clue what it is and doesn't know where in his archives it is and the guy he said sampled it said it was angklung, which it certainly isn't. I've asked half a dozen professional percussionists and a few prominent film composers and none of them can ID it. I've put the clip of the recording up on a few other synth/sample forums and no one except you has had any input.Maybe I should re-upload the clip?

There's just something about it that I really like...ah well...time will tell. Eventually I'll figure it out.

[monkeyweasel]

yeah, i particularly like these kind of sounds (I think, if i remember right), so that's probably why I replied first time round.

Now you got me intrigued.

When I said deaden or dampen I think i meant like putting your hand on on the marimba so it doesnt resonate. Is that what you tried? Or did you use a straight marimba sample and "dampen" it with EQ?

[bpdl]

I actually played around on a real marimba. Definitely not it. Unless it's a bass marimba with special mallets or some obscure, seldom used marimba variation. I'm going to reupload the clip, with an additional use of it from Horner's "The Missing" that is a bit more prominent.

[bpdl]

First is Jumanji (1995) the second is The Missing (2005). Both composed by James Horner and percussion by Mike Fisher:

http://www.filedropper.com/clankyidclip

[monkeyweasel]

this is probably the bit you wanted: http://www.filedropper.com/clankyidclip

EDIT: checked it, and you're right, it isnt particularly marimba-ish. its got the attack of a marimba i guess (which is why i maybe thought it was that before), and is perhaps closer to a thai version of the marimba called bonglang. which I also have, but its on the other side of the world right now so i cant try it. its probably not even that anyway (and it would still need dampening) but you can see what it looks like here, fourth row down, first on left: http://www.jidathaicraft.com/1.html

basically it sounds more like stones or slates or soemthing to me. cos they dont resonate. i know there are some kinds of stone glockenspiels, but couldnt tell you what they are called or where you'd find one.

not really getting any closer are we...


EDIT AGAIN: I only got one clip by the way. where's the other one? was there another link that you forgot to post?


YET ANOTHER EDIT: you might have to go to Iceland. And hit harder than these guys, cos your clip sounds kind of atonal or something by comparison:

[jancivil]

Sounds like a lithophone. VSL has a library...

[bpdl]

I looked at clips of the VSL Lithophone and I think that it is something similar. There an Spanish instrument called a Txalaparta that I think is the closest. Dampened, fortissimo, and sampled on early 90's gear?

[@l3x!5]

I'd say maybe dampened rails or anvil.

In either case the material can vary greatly from one set to another,
and, as always with percussive instruments, mallets are everything.

Add acoustics to the mix, together with recording modus operandi, and the results can be altered dramatically.

If I were you I'd try and beat the crap out of as much thick and heavy medium sized metal object as can be, with your favorite hammer, until you find what you're looking for.

We used short rails for Wagner's Das Rheingold historical rerun at the Opera de Paris last year, and I'm positive you can achieve similar results while experimenting with dampening. Don't forget to protect your ears though

[jancivil]

I have one of the lithophones in VSL Percussion (a higher pitched on in more or less the same range as), and I think you won't get closer to this than that. Sonic Couture makes something quite similar which they may call by a descriptive name, I forget.

You can do melodic lines on lithophone the same as a xylophone or what-have-you, an anvil presents a different situation I would think.

[@l3x!5]

You can do melodic lines on lithophone the same as a xylophone or what-have-you, an anvil presents a different situation I would think.

Regarding anvils, absolutely, yet rails can easily be - and often are - tuned to match whatever the composer or conductor wishes. For that reason, they are commonly favored in order to play anvil parts (what we did for Wagner).
Plus, it's easier to prep, cheaper and easily replaceable.

However, you're right that it can equally be a litophone - or yet another thing completely out of the blue.
With adequate mallets and proper acoustics, there's not much limit to what you can accomplish if you have enough different material at hand and some time to spare - it's pretty much like a sound effect engineer gig at this point, or so to speak.

Or to put it differently :
When percussionists = fun, organologists = headaches

[monkeyweasel]

ah yes, metal. that makes sense...

...but then wouldnt beating a dampened metal xylophone hard with a hammer produce a similar effect?