KVR Audio

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:11 pm

Kaboom75 wrote:The only diference I can see on cards for music production is they have many sockets to plug hardware synthesizers in and thats it.

Is that out of your experience with playing with high and low end cards/converters or just the low end? Differences are input and output quantity, input and output QUALITY (one of the more notable reasons to buy a better card that people notice when they upgrade), driver quality/stability, and cpu load at different levels of latency (RME cards at lower latency ive seen less of a cpu load on the same project compared to another card.)

Devon

P.T. · Post by **P.T.** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:34 pm

osiris wrote:I run mine at 3 ms, but if you want any lower.....

Are you referring to the Creative card?
And is that one way or round trip?

Actually, either is good.

Most of the lower and mid priced usb boxes are 8ms and higher, which is getting boarder line for critical timing like for midi drums and tight playing of complex rhythm parts with any instrument.

But 3, or 6ms, (in plus out) is good.

Kaine · Post by **Kaine** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:45 am

P.T. wrote: But 3, or 6ms, (in plus out) is good.

6ms RTL would make it better than the Profire 610, Steinberg MR816 CSX, Komplete Audio 6, MOTU 828 and a whole lot of other good midrange cards costing 2 - 3 times the price!

Are you taking this figure from the Creative control panel, or are you running 3rd party loopback tests?

tenshin111 · Post by **tenshin111** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:36 am

Kaine wrote:
P.T. wrote: But 3, or 6ms, (in plus out) is good.
6ms RTL would make it better than the Profire 610, Steinberg MR816 CSX, Komplete Audio 6, MOTU 828 and a whole lot of other good midrange cards costing 2 - 3 times the price!

Are you taking this figure from the Creative control panel, or are you running 3rd party loopback tests?

I would like to know that too! (if that's true I will be swapping my Focusrite Saffire DSP for a Creative card

)

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:21 pm

That's the Creative XiFi Titanium. I don't know what you mean by in. I guess it's both. This is from the ASIO setup panel. Tried 2 ms, but it crackled. Bumped it to 3 - no problem. And you know it sounds really good. I had 21 instances of one particular VST up and not a hiccup. (Not playing at the same time - maybe 5 at once.
The only thing I don't like is the out. No RCA out. Digital out (which my amp doesn't support) Or PC Speakers out. (Green wire)

P.T. · Post by **P.T.** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:30 pm

osiris wrote:That's the Creative XiFi Titanium. I don't know what you mean by in. I guess it's both. This is from the ASIO setup panel. Tried 2 ms, but it crackled. Bumped it to 3 - no problem. And you know it sounds really good. I had 21 instances of one particular VST up and not a hiccup. (Not playing at the same time - maybe 5 at once.
The only thing I don't like is the out. No RCA out. Digital out (which my amp doesn't support) Or PC Speakers out. (Green wire)

You asked what is meant by 'in'.

When you record, the signal goes into the computer and into your sequencer.
It gets processed on he way in.
Then the signal goes out of the computer and you monitor the sound.

There is latency on the way in and latency on the way out.

The 2 combined is the 'round trip' latency.

If that creative card is doing 3ms or even 6ms round trip, that's very good.

Kaboom75 · Post by **Kaboom75** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:54 pm

Latency using my Creative titanium is 4ms in 2ms out 6MS overall latency acording to Ableton Lives ASIO setup info. I can get it lower but DIVA dont like it set that low just not enough time for the CPU.

My titanium is pluged into an A85 Arcam amp which is not digital. I use an RCA cable pluged into the green socket.

The Creative Titanium is not low end it recieved good reviews for its music sound quality compared to other high end cards.

Creative now sell The Titanium HD which is what I would be looking at if I was buying a card just for software instruments and effects but I would also look at RME cards which look more geared towards DAWS than the creative cards are.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:19 pm

Kaine wrote:
P.T. wrote: But 3, or 6ms, (in plus out) is good.
6ms RTL would make it better than the Profire 610, Steinberg MR816 CSX, Komplete Audio 6, MOTU 828 and a whole lot of other good midrange cards costing 2 - 3 times the price!

I swear I've set my MOTU 828 MkIII at 3ms before (mine is set to 6ms normally) without issue? I just don't need 3ms, so I never set it there for obvious reasons. I'll go fiddle with it tonight to see.

Devon

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:37 pm

Kaboom75 wrote:The Creative Titanium is not low end it recieved good reviews for its music sound quality compared to other high end cards.

What are these other high end cards that they are comparing it to? This is still a consumer level card. Mid/High professional end is going to be Lynx, RME, Avid, Apogee, etc. What is being compared? I've used and reviewed a ton of different cards over the years (still use a Creative XFi Gamer in my gaming machine, MOTU, Creamware, RME, Lynx, Frontier Design, and a lot more) and I wouldn't compare the Creative to the high end.

Devon

boombaxx · Post by **boombaxx** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:44 pm

I have an EMU 12/12m pci if anyone is interested.

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:11 pm

I had it on 2, but Omnisphere didn't like that. 3 it was okay with. I think Creative will/is having an issue with being known as a 'gamer card', and yes - there's a Gamer Mode. But it can be switched off.

Kaboom75 · Post by **Kaboom75** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:40 pm

The gamer X-fi cannot be compared to the X-fi Titanium or Titanium HD or any high end cards.

The gamer X-fi is an Audigy 2 ZS card from 2002 that is sold with a new name and a driver that runs X-Fi gaming effects on your CPU core. Thats why it is sold for far less than the Titanium and uses more CPU than the titanium.

The Titanium has a higher performing ASIO uses higher end components more powerfull processor a better amp than the Audigy 2 or gamer X-fi and has a few gaming and movie effect sound chips that can be dissabled for the audio creation mode.

I've only seen the Titanium compared to highest end gaming and movie sound cards the sound is far better than my old Audigy 2 ZS. I have looked at other cards for music production but the specs dont look any better but the in and outputs are better on the RME and a few others but some of us don't need those.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:25 pm

Kaboom75 wrote:The gamer X-fi cannot be compared to the X-fi Titanium or Titanium HD or any high end cards.

The gamer X-fi is an Audigy 2 ZS card from 2002 that is sold with a new name and a driver that runs X-Fi gaming effects on your CPU core. Thats why it is sold for far less than the Titanium and uses more CPU than the titanium.

The Titanium has a higher performing ASIO uses higher end components more powerfull processor a better amp than the Audigy 2 or gamer X-fi and has a few gaming and movie effect sound chips that can be dissabled for the audio creation mode.

I've only seen the Titanium compared to highest end gaming and movie sound cards the sound is far better than my old Audigy 2 ZS. I have looked at other cards for music production but the specs dont look any better but the in and outputs are better on the RME and a few others but some of us don't need those.

As long as the ASIO drivers work well, then yes, it would be a viable alternative. That has NOT been the case in the past. The EMU cards were a decent alternative in the $200ish range a few years ago. Still, we're comparing apples and oranges with professional grade interfaces and consumer/prosumer based products. All depends on what you need and want to spend.

On that note though, since you seem to be in the know - I've considered upgrading my XFi Gamer, but couldn't find a good list of what the newer Creative cards gave in the way of gaming? How they sell it doens't help because it seems what I got now is just as good as the new stuff. What is the difference?

Devon

Kaine · Post by **Kaine** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:12 am

DevonB wrote: I swear I've set my MOTU 828 MkIII at 3ms before (mine is set to 6ms normally) without issue? I just don't need 3ms, so I never set it there for obvious reasons. I'll go fiddle with it tonight to see.

You probably have mate. From what I remember 3ms on the control panel would be output latency, my 6ms was a combined round trip (in/out) score.

Think I'm going to have to go pull a Titanium from stock to see what's going on these days.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:42 am

Kaine wrote:
DevonB wrote: I swear I've set my MOTU 828 MkIII at 3ms before (mine is set to 6ms normally) without issue? I just don't need 3ms, so I never set it there for obvious reasons. I'll go fiddle with it tonight to see.
You probably have mate. From what I remember 3ms on the control panel would be output latency, my 6ms was a combined round trip (in/out) score.

Think I'm going to have to go pull a Titanium from stock to see what's going on these days.

I tried it at 64 sample latency which gave me 2ms in and 3ms out. It works, but I do get the occasional crackle. Didn't try 96 samples though. Thank goodness I'm perfectly happy with 6ms.

PCI cards do so much better.

Done 1.5ms without issue on my Creamware Pulsar II and Frontier Design Dakota without crackles from what I recall... significant CPU load, but no crackles. As I recall, the RME card did even better at lower latency with little to no effect on CPU load.

Devon

PCIe soundcard?