Linux...anybody using it?

[pljones]

But just complaining about bugs (to people who are not in a position to do anything about it) doesn't solve the problem.

Voting for ancient bugs didn't seem to, either. But that was years ago when there hadn't been a version for years. I'm always surprised how little feedback wineasio gets, it must be said. Mostly around getting it installed, rather than bugs. I'm fairly sure most of the distros are running of the sourceforge version now.

[glokraw]

And regarding DAWS, it's unfair not to mention MUSE and Rosegarden.
http://muse-sequencer.org/
http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/

If this were a linux forum, I might, but among windows and Mac users,
a few of whom are willing to try linux, DAWs are the weak link in linux.
For users with old, or extra un-used hardware, I would recommend linux
for the current instrument group of zynaddsubfx/yoshimi, Calf Monosynth,
Phasex, Hexter, Whysynth, and Hydrogen for samples, with Rakarrack,
Guitarix, Invada, MDA, and Calf plugin collections, for fx,
and a healthy dose of wineasio-Reaper driven windows vsts.

For guitar, the Fender Mustang Amps are fabulous fun when used with
Rakarrack, and simple to use in qjackctl.

I really doubt any linux DAW will beat Reaper, but I would be
happy if one or some did. Competition is a great driver of progress.

(Linux DAW coders should use industry standard naming in all
menus and widgets, and simply the steps needed to make a sound.
Reaper has a full default project as an install option,
for new users to explore. hint hint hint )

[ret]

Linux DAW's are often developed by one person or a very small group of people. Nothing wrong with that but it often leads to weird working and/or looking user interface.

My advice for success with native linux audio is very simple: Lower your expectations. Instead of thinking "I'm getting a new Cubase-Logic-Sonar level DAW for free" think "I'm getting something productive out of this linux system.".

With wine, wineasio and some good luck you can get rather close to windows or mac but to be honest native windows software is never going to be as stable in linux as it is on real windows. If you have a project with a deadline you save lots of your time and nerves simply by swallowing your pride and booting to windows.

[stanlea]

I thought that this topic was about Linux pros and cons, and in fact, it is. But in any way thinking like proselytes will not help much.
Honestly, my main motivation to use Linux for all my work (including office work, writing, pictures, web and so on) is :

All apps except sound :
- works out of the box, you have to change your habits, but very slightly
- office formats compatible
- you don't have to pay windows every 4 years
- I'm not a gamer (althought linux games are improving quickly these days)
- you can choose and fine tune easily your window manager
- and many more reasons

As for sound :
- I has issues with windows apps, asio drivers during the first years of making music with computer
- It's true that installation of alsa and jack can be tricky, but once it works, it never stops
- I think that using win apps under wine is no a good idea, because wine is evolving and you can never say which way - honestly, I use Reaktor, Helix and some others, but I'll not complaint if they suddenly stop working
- Jack is really a wonder app for setting live configurations
- the main DAW for me is still Ardour, but I wouldn't use it for midi because the main formats for plugins synths (DSSI and LV2) are problematic.
- for midi tracks, Qtractor is much more easy to set up and run
- they are way less synths, but some are good, althought they lack presets - Loomer is showing the way for payware apps under Linux, and althought the market is small, I think that Colin is right - using Linux do not mean that you're mean or do not want to spend any cent.
- there is no Kontakt equivalent, of course, but Linux sampler can handle sfz and gig, and it's widely enough for my needs
- there are plenty of excellent sound processors : think of Calf, LinuxDSP, ...

So in short : I'm happy with Linux, if you're not, it's okay but thanks for not discouraging others, except if you're an employee of Microsoft or Apple.

[kmatheussen]

I'll happily try jack_capture, but I have never experienced a single bug,
crash, or dissapointing result when using timemachine. The 24 bit .w64 files
it produces sound great.

As for taking ages, if seconds are ages, I will agree. I'm not advocating
for Britney to use it for an 80 track pop hit, but for small productions,
with time to ponder what you connect next, it's not an issue to me.

There is a lot of recent progress in linux audio, thanks for being part of it,
and sharing your talent and work. I hope you and other coders/experts,
will be at home here, where knowledge wins in the end!

* You have to manually connect the ports before you record in timemachine. That's not very nice if you have something cool going on that you want to record as soon as possible. What if you have 10 different programs producing sound? If so, you might have to perform 60 clicks (2*3*10) with your mouse in qjackctl to route all sounds to timemachine. (2 channels per program, 3 clicks to connect one channel)
* In 2005, when I wrote jack_capture, few programs supported the w64 format.
* A bug reported about an empty frame being inserted between past time and current time in the produced sound files, has not been fixed. That's probably because the author of timemachine stopped working on his software many years ago. I don't think he's been very active since around 2005.
* The name "timemachine" doesn't start with the name "jack", so when you write "jack TAB TAB", you don't see timemachine in the list of applications. In other words, you have to remember the name. That's not very nice if you have something cool going on that you want to record as soon as possible.

[glokraw]

Tempest in a teapot. Constructing a song is often done brick by brick,
take, retake, change the brick...grind the edges...If I could fully imagine
20 tracks full of instruments ahead of time, and magically load the full project,
I would have been rubbing shoulders with Trump and Leno years ago

Makers of Pop 40 hits may all sound alike, and load the same project
over and over and over, add a few tweaks, get a new chic vocal,
but that's not for everyone.

Really, all those rocket scientists with 100 tracks are using pro-tools,
logic, cubase, or are named Paul Davis. Those with 30+ tracks are named
Reteo ( a compliment )

Maybe pose the question on the list,
"how many tracks in your typical linux project?" I'm curious, and don't want
to blow mis-informed smoke
Cheers

[glokraw]

- I think that using win apps under wine is no a good idea, because wine is evolving and you can never say which way - honestly, I use Reaktor, Helix and some others, but I'll not complaint if they suddenly stop working

People upgrade themselves straight to Oblivion. If it works, just make music.
I use old old wine 1.2, and never in my wildest dreams will I have earthly time
to use up all the synths that work fine with it.
I'll be jamming with Conrardy and laughing, because tweakers will be
gnashing their teeth that wine 2.9 broke something.

[glokraw]

native windows software is never going to be as stable in linux as it is on real windows.

There is a constant parade of DAW GONE WILD threads here, Cubase sucks, Sonar is
debilitating, Reaper is a ____, this one needs a dongle, that one crashes on tuesdays
yada yada yada

It's not as if native windows software was wonderfully bug-free running on windows...

Then there's the I hate win7 thread, the 'who is (dumb enough to) upgrading to win 8',
and comments that XP is old and decrepid, but works, and '98 jokes/taunts

Wearing rose colored glasses, sipping always half-full Microsoft martinis, just doesn't
get any bettter than that

[glokraw]

But just complaining about bugs (to people who are not in a position to do anything about it) doesn't solve the problem.

Voting for ancient bugs didn't seem to, either. But that was years ago when there hadn't been a version for years. I'm always surprised how little feedback wineasio gets, it must be said. Mostly around getting it installed, rather than bugs. I'm fairly sure most of the distros are running of the sourceforge version now.

Wineasio has to be among the top ten all-time softwares for the
'Most happiness generated per K'

[ret]

"how many tracks in your typical linux project?"

For me a very typical linux project would be using

- Garritan Personal Orchestra
- Addictive Drums
- ZynAddSubFX
- Tal Noisemaker
- Guitars
- Bass
- Vocals
- Samples etc

It really is impossible to say a definite number but maybe something between 24-36?

[StudioDave]

I really doubt any linux DAW will beat Reaper ...

Registered and experienced owner here. I can't tell you how much I despise Reaper's UI. To be honest, for my purposes it's the worst-designed DAW I've used to date. For every sixteen songs I do in Ardour I get half of one done in Reaper. Workflow is everything, and of course my DAW experience is not the glokraw DAW experience, but never has a program got more in my way than Reaper.

Lots of people love Reaper, I'm not one of them.

[StudioDave]

Maybe pose the question on the list, "how many tracks in your typical linux project?" I'm curious, and don't want to blow mis-informed smoke...

1. I don't have typical projects.

2. In my case at least, a better question would be "How many segments/regions do you use in a typical project ?" I might begin a work with 30+ tracks, but they'll eventually get blended and combined into a lesser number of tracks but with potentially far more regions than I started out with.

Best,

dp

[glokraw]

Lots of people love Reaper, I'm not one of them.

I like the immediacy of 'insert virtual instrument on new track',
'insert media file', 'render live output to disk', doing that
in other linux DAW settings can be a clickfest, if even possible
when using windows vsts as part of the mix. I might buy a
Mixbus license after the New Year, and see what's shakin', and give
it to my technically superior son, if it's over my head.

Some of the reaper threads here bring out the Hatfields and McCoys
in record time, or is that RT?
Cheers

[glokraw]

"how many tracks in your typical linux project?"

For me a very typical linux project would be using

- Garritan Personal Orchestra
- Addictive Drums
- ZynAddSubFX
- Tal Noisemaker
- Guitars
- Bass
- Vocals
- Samples etc

It really is impossible to say a definite number but maybe something between 24-36?

Thats a nicely tall stack. Gives me the ADD chills just thinking about it

Love the punch of Addictive Drums. Garritan, Zyn and Tal cover
a nice range. There are some fine strings in Nasca Pauls collection of
zynaddsubfx combo sounds, I think they're in the docs section of the
zyn sourceforge page, called 'unsorted collection', or similar.
Cheers

[reteo]

Wow... such a lot of vitriol, for certain.

Like I said, Linux's main benefit is for the experimental and DIY crowd, the people who want to have unlimited flexibility in making the sounds they want, and are willing to get their hands dirty. It's also best for those who, like several have previously mentioned, are hardcore open-sourcers who don't want to use the commercial stuff. If you just want to make music, and what you have works for you, then you should use what you have. I advocate Linux for many types of multimedia production, but not at the expense of what you already have and know, and definitely not in the case where the effort of learning the system only provides marginal benefit at best.

I also noticed a lot of people here talking about qjackctl. I have long since abandoned that app in preference of the LADI-based session handlers, particularly the "Claudia" app from the KXStudio distribution.

Claudia has a chart-style connection layout, and has the ability to not only save connections, but also store applications in your projects so that they can automatically be launched the next time you start the project. Not only that, it has the ability to add apps, whether you need a DAW, synth, or sequencer, or anything else for that matter, from a window consisting of a tabbed collection of app lists; simply pick the category, double-click the app, and it's up and running, and in your project.

As for Jack in general: It's not as hard as some of you make it out to be. In fact, if you have used analog music gear in the past, Jack (aside from its setup) should be downright intuitive for you, because that's what it is: a virtual analog signal chain. And when you add Claudia to the mix, it's like snapping your fingers, and watching all the components fly into place, plug in, turn on, and wire themselves up for your desired project (provided you wired them up the first time and saved the project).

Finally, Onto the arrogance and unhelpfulness of the community: If you need help, I'm more than willing to offer what help I can. Also, have you checked with the community at www.linuxmusicians.com , or are they among the "unhelpfuls" you mentioned?

Sorry I haven't responded in a while; I have a lot going on, so I'm sporadic at best.