Console emulation plugins = necessary?

[audiosabre]

I fink dare nesaccary musak made with reel ananlug geers in reel studios are alwayz better van digitle crappy music that noobs mke today on compooters and sell on beetpoot to kids that have ears damaged by limiting musaks in loud clubs consol plugins ar only way to achieve a phat musakle sound people not using consol plugins know not how tro poduce musaks like pro engineers of yesterday that sell millions of copies worldwide if you seerios about quality musaks you will buy consol plugins and have thick hamronic pleesing saturaton that make songs radio ready like songs of yesteday better than skrillex or woteva that shit kids bang their rang to also tape plugin can make sound even better use as much abnalog plugin as you can because the pros make there songs in professional hifidelty multimillon $ studio using all analogs and no poor digitle cheep plugins in sythedit that have crap fideltys and bad sound qualtys like noob kids using fruityloops in there bedroom finking they gona be some srat tho they suckz like dubstep save your musaks from shitness and buy consol plugin do yourselvs a favor

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[dalor]

yu so rite

[kvaca]

I fink dare nesaccary musak made with reel ananlug geers in reel studios are alwayz better van digitle crappy music that noobs mke today on compooters and sell on beetpoot to kids that have ears damaged by limiting musaks in loud clubs consol plugins ar only way to achieve a phat musakle sound people not using consol plugins know not how tro poduce musaks like pro engineers of yesterday that sell millions of copies worldwide if you seerios about quality musaks you will buy consol plugins and have thick hamronic pleesing saturaton that make songs radio ready like songs of yesteday better than skrillex or woteva that shit kids bang their rang to also tape plugin can make sound even better use as much abnalog plugin as you can because the pros make there songs in professional hifidelty multimillon $ studio using all analogs and no poor digitle cheep plugins in sythedit that have crap fideltys and bad sound qualtys like noob kids using fruityloops in there bedroom finking they gona be some srat tho they suckz like dubstep save your musaks from shitness and buy consol plugin do yourselvs a favor

.

yur inglish is hella betr tan main...

[Uncle E]

yur inglish is hella betr tan main...

Have you tried Waves NLS and REDD yet?

[AudioGuy720]

My music sounds better with Slate VCC and VTM on, more interesting than they do off and less EQ is needed to get the mix right. Trust your ears and not statements or opinions.

+1! The "thing" that my mixes were missing was found with Slate VCC. Slate VTM adds even more of "that thing" that makes my decent in the box mix and allows me to get a "Dude did you mix that in a million dollar studio?" mix.

But you have to start your mixes with VCC and VTM on FIRST. When I first demoed VCC I just plopped it on the end of my inserts after I was already finished a mix. These plugins don't work well that way.

The only exception to that "rule" is VTM's 1/2" machine setting dropped on the master channel after an already finished mix does sound good putting the 2" machines on every channel after the fact doesn't. Your mileage may vary.

[Arglebargle]

Console emulations are on par with audio pebbles in terms of what they actually do for your music.

[kvaca]

Have you tried Waves NLS and REDD yet?

I started to think about it...but now Im reading Compyfox observations about REDD and Im not sure if its not another waste of time
maybe that NLS will be better option for me if I could find one free day for proper testing...

But I need to tell you this - so far I have tested about 15-20 analog modeling plugins,and the results?...simply the poorest possible...only 1-2 of them sounds only slightly better than average nonmodeling plugins Im using so far...but even these "good" emus still lose when compared side by side to hw, even the cheapest one...

for instance - maybe best example of good modeling plugin is Studio Devil VTP...when I have started demoing this one it was maybe the first time in my life I got the feeling that its something superior plus very analog sounding same time /...and believe me or not I never had the same feeling when testing all that IK,NI,Softube or Waves modeling attempts so far/, BUT...after I have compared it to most crappy tube hw I found at home /do you know fatman?/ I got how easily people can be fooled by the new plugin if theres no comparison to real hw possible...
so Im pretty sure that the same feelings could have all people who can afford having a real concole at their home and comparing it to these "console" plugins you are recommending...

[kvaca]

+1! The "thing" that my mixes were missing was found with Slate VCC. Slate VTM adds even more of "that thing" that makes my decent in the box mix and allows me to get a "Dude did you mix that in a million dollar studio?" mix.

here you have nailed it perfecty!

resume:
- so for people who want "million dollar studio" sound - go and buy these VCC!
- and a message for rare people who want stay original - please dont do it!

since the best records I have heard in my life were certainly not made in these million dollar studios Im pretty sure what I need...

[AudioGuy720]

+1! The "thing" that my mixes were missing was found with Slate VCC. Slate VTM adds even more of "that thing" that makes my decent in the box mix and allows me to get a "Dude did you mix that in a million dollar studio?" mix.

here you have nailed it perfecty!

resume:
- so for people who want "million dollar studio" sound - go and buy these VCC!
- and a message for rare people who want stay original - please dont do it!

since the best records I have heard in my life were certainly not made in these million dollar studios Im pretty sure what I need...

Haha, I'm not saying knowing what you're doing with other effects doesn't matter...they most certainly do. And then there's the all important source quality that happens during the recording process.

But if you have all that other stuff nailed down with a clean in the box mix there's still some magic that happens when plugins like VCC and VTM are used.

For those that don't want to/can't afford VCC/VTM TesslaPRO mkII is a good substitute.

[kvaca]

And then there's the all important source quality that happens during the recording process.

nailed again! - now I also prefer to invest in another hw than to another plugin...

But if you have all that other stuff nailed down with a clean in the box mix there's still some magic that happens when plugins like VCC and VTM are used.

dont know about VCC,no demo=no interest..., dongle=no way

For those that don't want to/can't afford VCC/VTM TesslaPRO mkII is a good substitute.

agree again - I have mkI version and liked it...nice waveforms,delicate impact on sound,not much harm to music...have to try the new one...but after all-when used moderately-its sometimes very hard to say if its ON or OFF
and-when driven hard-it quickly starts to sound ugly... same as all modeling plugins around

[Uncle E]

But I need to tell you this - so far I have tested about 15-20 analog modeling plugins,and the results?...simply the poorest possible...only 1-2 of them sounds only slightly better than average nonmodeling plugins Im using so far...but even these "good" emus still lose when compared side by side to hw, even the cheapest one...

Which did you test? I mentioned 4 good ones and you replied that you never tried any of them, which leads me to believe you're neither trying out the best plug-ins nor trying out a wide variety of them.

[kvaca]

But I need to tell you this - so far I have tested about 15-20 analog modeling plugins,and the results?...simply the poorest possible...only 1-2 of them sounds only slightly better than average nonmodeling plugins Im using so far...but even these "good" emus still lose when compared side by side to hw, even the cheapest one...

Which did you test?

I have tested all brands which allow me to demo /=not your 4 recomended ones/, please also read the rest of my article for more details....

but still I havent tested the very recent plugins /like REDD,NLS,Tessla Pro mkII/ - I will do it when I find time...

[Compyfox]

For those that don't want to/can't afford VCC/VTM TesslaPRO mkII is a good substitute.

IMO currently not with the gain staging feature. Since it's hard to get/pull off.


If you look at these emulations as "final sparkle", they can work. But through the last months, I realised "you don't necessarily need it" since they can do more damage than good.

As example:
Let's say I use the Slate VCC on the SSL4k setup, then I use the SSL Duende Plugins (which also introduce modeling), use tons of modeled comps, reverbs and the likes, ignore the limits and then I print it on to VTM or MAGNETIC. Doesn't matter.

If I went over the limits on purpose, since other people do it as well, I create a clusterfunk of sound. Too much saturation, too washed out sound. And this is IMO not a good thing.



The reasons why digital environments also exist, not only due to the fact that we can store more on HDDs and have less maintenance. It is due to the reduced noise, the improved algorithms, etc. With console emulations, or emulations in general, we want to get back that "old sound" that we believe is great. But engineers back in the day tried to get rid of that in the first place (dolby processors, optimal worklevel and therefore slightly overdriving a console, reducing crosstalk and channel interaction, inventing digital recording schemes, etc).

Mid 90ies, certain engineers were like "this is what the console is all about", and suddenly, everything was driven into the red. The so called "modern" or "expensive" sound you describe is nothing more than ignoring rules. Overdriving consoles and gear on purpose. And that in direct context also means "digital is sh*t" - even if this is not true.


The problem these days we have with plugins is, that we can use umlimited instances, overdrive them, have instant "total recall" (as they used to call it), we can tweak them to death, save presets, don't need maintenance. This is IMO not a good thing. But I have to underdrive my plugins on purpose to have actual control over the sound shaping (read: gain staging). With samples and synths these days, you can't do anything else about it than going this route.


These emulations do have their right of existence. No doubt about it. You can create your custom console if you want and you feel that your "home setup" lacks all that.

But personally, I'm fine either way. I'm currently even thinking about getting that Behringer X32 digital console with MIDAS preamps. Not the best around the block, some even say it's sh*t. But that doesn't matter to me - it gives me suitable ins/outs, built in FX, a digital controller for my DAW, etc. And I ran fine for years with my current setup (two Behringer MX consoles - one for recording, one for monitoring, two Behringer Controls - one BCR one BCF).

I'd use <insert console plugin collection here> only for slight sound design. Or for example, the BritishEQ from Nomad Factory since I like the way it's working. So instead of having unlimited possibilities, I limit myself on purpose just to focus on the music/performance rather than the ultra-modern sound. And in this case, every tool is right. Though I can go the other route as well, but I won't go into the reds.


People might say "nah, don't do that" or "your stuff sucks". But I can pull off professional sounding mixes with freeware, that others can not with expensive software emulations. Why? Because I know my gear, and I know it's limitations.



So I can emphasize on it once more:
Console emulations can get you there, they can give you your(!) signature sound. They can work on "turd", but won't be the magic fairy that fixes things. However, they were most successful in teaching people again how to mix right.

And this is actually a great thing.

[Doug1978]

Excellent post Mr Fox.


It's that balance of knowing when to stop, when too much of something is reducing your audio quality rather than enhancing it.
I'm not so good at this discipline, but I'm learning. And I was happy during a recent project when, having loaded and bounced through various Nebula consoles, tape machines, pre-amps and the like, I found that the best overall sound (bit of sexiness versus bit of restraint) was when I returned to one of the save files I'd reached half way through.

That's maybe the greatest thing about these computers - saving files as your project progresses and checking for when you've bollocksed up a perfectly good recording for the sake of a mental image of 'what it's supposed to be like'.

Cheers.

[Harry_HH]

Topical thread and interestingly very
big deviation of opinions.
Those who use these plugins (e.g. Slate, Ampex),
how much these are used at the mixing stage,
how much at mastering? H.