rendered audio from midi out of sync in cubase and reaper

[whyterabbyt]

My friend, before coming to see me, spent the morning looking through the Cubase forums and said there were people with midi to audio timing issues all over it. I found this within a couple minutes:-

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=211592

I think you should ask your software developer friend to explain to you how likely it is the a midi to audio timing issue in one application could also manifest itself in not one, but two, completely different other applications sharing zero of the codebase.

The same midi notes, no controller messages, no modulation of any kind, quantized exactly to the beat.

Personally, I'd like to know this wasnt a quantization issue, ie the result of how quantization behaves, if its any kind of realtime quantization that isnt reflected directly in the MIDI editor. Switch all quantization/snap etc off completely; then see what happens.

[j79]

nevermind

[bazwillrun]

So let me get this straight based on what you have told us, because I am seriously puzzled here, in fact it flys in the face of common sense to me.

It happens with every DAW you have used with every different PC system you have used, with all the software of all sorts you have used, with lots of different combinations of the above, all the different interfaces and combinations of the above.

you have spoken to various "experts" in audio retail and recording who have said you are doing nothing wrong.

You also say it happens from the minute you start with the most basic setup/process possible.

Are you saying that if you were to get given a brand newe PC with nothing on it, then installed an operating sys and then Cubase/Reaper or anything else and recorded something with any of your VSTi then renedered it to audio you would have the same problem ?

Hmmm, something doesnt add up here to state the blindingly obvious

[No_Use]

Could it be that one (or several) VST(i)s you use don't report their latency to the host correctly and so bringing the project out of sync ?
(I've read threads here were this was the case)

[bazwillrun]

Could it be that one (or several) VST(i)s you use don't report their latency to the host correctly and so bringing the project out of sync ?
(I've read threads here were this was the case)

if that were the case, would it be fair to assume that everybody else that uses the same VSTis would/does also suffer the same problem ?...

In which case the the problem should be easy to emulate if the OP lets us know which VSTi's hes using.

[tenshin111]

Could it be that one (or several) VST(i)s you use don't report their latency to the host correctly and so bringing the project out of sync ?
(I've read threads here were this was the case)

Could it be that the same happens over and over again on different PC with various DAWs? I don't think so.

I am almost certain this guy is loaded with such enormous static electricity charge that he practically disables every PC he touches. That's the only logical explanation given all the facts

[BERFAB]

This sounds very close to, but not exactly, like a persistent Cubase midi problem (known bug actually) that persisted up until Cubase 6. This caused me lots of grief, but it was a very real problem that I had to address with every new Cubase install up to v. 5. It may help, it may not, but it's worth a look. I originally posted about it here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... idi+timing

Best of luck
-B

[tenshin111]

This sounds very close to, but not exactly, like a persistent Cubase midi problem (known bug actually) that persisted up until Cubase 6.
-B

Looks like Steinberg didn't fix the bug but instead re-planted it in other DAWs, like Reapear and PT

[tenshin111]

Maybe the OP should give it another chance and try the same stuff on a Mac? It it doesn't "just work" there then I see no solution to this weird problem.

[No_Use]

Could it be that one (or several) VST(i)s you use don't report their latency to the host correctly and so bringing the project out of sync ?
(I've read threads here were this was the case)

if that were the case, would it be fair to assume that everybody else that uses the same VSTis would/does also suffer the same problem ?...

In which case the the problem should be easy to emulate if the OP lets us know which VSTi's hes using.

Yes.
But upon re-reading and re-thinking the opening post, he says it's not audible upon VST live playback, only when rendering to Audio.
So if a not latency-reporting VST would be the cause it would be also audible on playback, so I think this can rather be excluded.

[BERFAB]

Like I said, my midi problem sounded like a close cousin to his. Nothing else seems to work, and, hey, it's worth a shot.

I thought about the Reaper issue as well, and figured it might be possible that there is a shared file that affects both.

A bit surprised here by the lack of empathy on some posts. We've all had those late-night-hair-pulling-gear-malfunction-and-I-don't-know-why moments. I know it's KVR, but cut the OP a bit of slack.

Cheers
-B

[j79]

The only thing i can think of is that you somehow have some weirdness going on in your midifiles/items.

You said somewhere that you test with the same midi-notes...is that in the litteral sense, meaning that you used the same midi-files you used when cubase started acting up to test all the time, including in Reaper?

Long shot maybe, cause it doesnt really explain why its only audible on render but thats pretty much the only thing i can think of atm.

How big are the fluctuations? A few milliseconds or...?

[tenshin111]

A bit surprised here by the lack of empathy on some posts. We've all had those late-night-hair-pulling-gear-malfunction-and-I-don't-know-why moments. I know it's KVR, but cut the OP a bit of slack.

-B

I guess this is because of OPs initial 'hostile' response when it was suggested the it is actually him being the source of the problem.

Apart from that it is business as usual here on KVR

[bazwillrun]

"A bit surprised here by the lack of empathy on some posts"

i dont think thats the case, its more a case of bizarre to understand and WTF, the OP says it happens on virtually any setup, everything and anything he tries it on, he swaps, he changes , hes trying all sorts o combination etc etc but still it happens different PC different software...I mean come on

If its a Cubase issue, as suggested then how comes he also says he gets it in Reaper and did he mention Pro-tools?!

Sorry but as I said earlier something just doesnt add up here.

By a very simple process of elimination it should be pretty quick and easy to nail the culprit/culprits

[CTStump]

All I am looking for is some help. I have tested it with all my plugins installed, on a project that I have been working on for months, as well as a completely fresh install with no other software other than Cubase, one plugin and the necessary drivers for the audio interface. I have then uninstalled Cubase, installed reaper, then done the same with Pro tools, so basically its new project each time, one plugin, one DAW, no other software. The same midi notes, no controller messages, no modulation of any kind, quantized exactly to the beat. One plugin, TAL Noisemaker is bang on the beat, the rest completely out of time. Everything has been setup according to the relevant DAW manuals and my own experience.

The reason why I haven't posted a project is not because I don't want to sort the problem out, I am currently reinstalling the software in the same order that I can remember the last time it worked, I have and I am still doing everything that I can to rectify the problem. I'm quite happy to post Reaper and Cubase projects once this is done.

I don't know where you are all based, but I live near the Production Room in Leeds, UK which is the biggest retailer of Music Technology equipment in the country, and I spent a good two hours, discussing this with two of their staff, one who has been using Cubase for as long as I have. They have actually seen the problem demonstrated, and at no point did they say I was doing anything to cause the issue or there was a problem with my system, they offered constructive advice, not criticism. I also have a friend who is a software developer who I again spent several hours demonstrating the problem, and again at no point did he say there were any issues with the way I was working or my system. If that were the case, I'd actually be very happy, because then I could do something about it. My friend, before coming to see me, spent the morning looking through the Cubase forums and said there were people with midi to audio timing issues all over it. I found this within a couple minutes:-

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=211592

I can completely understand the way it looks if you haven't physically seen what is going on, and believe me I am as shocked and frustrated about this as everybody else I have discussed it with, but you have to have an open mind and entertain the fact that I might be actually right. I'm even toyed with the idea of filming what I'm doing, and posting it, not to prove a point but just to sort it out. I'm going thin with all the hair I've pulled out.

Like I said I will post the projects once I have completed the reinstall on both my computers. I really appreciate any constructive help and advice. I am not being rude but anyone with negative comments who say I am wasting THEIR time; take responsibility for your own actions. You don't have to reply.

Welcome to KVR,

For years I had the same problem with Sonar versions 3-5, when ever I bounced a synth track it was offset by the latency of the sound card. Might be the same problem might not however when you post a problem here you will find a wide group of User's of virtually every App available and some advice useful and not so useful so be prepared and try not get flustered to much.

What I did was measure the Latency and Offset the track + samples ahead and it solved that issue. Not saying it's the same but it's worth a gander. Eventually Cakewalk addressed the issue(bug) with fast bounce.

As has been mentioned before a list of your process would be handy to help narrow it down and try not to get frustrated with replies, most here if not all are willing to help if they have all or as much of the info my friend.