Getting my head around ClipShifter
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1800 posts since 10 Feb, 2007
Hello,
Yesterday I bought ClipShifter because I was looking for a clipper with a gain reduction meter. This price is right, I used the 'master brickwall' preset and that's what I was looking for. Until now I used Stillwell's Event Horizon+, great plugin but no GR meter.
I'm addicted to reading manuals and this is what I came across:
'The release time works as a multiple of the attack time' and '... the fast release button can be enabled.'
The release time is changeable in ms and I don't see a 'fast release button'. Is it possible that these were functions of previous versions?
And now the big question; I never encoutered a dynamic plugin with 2 thresholds. I think I do understand the idea but how and when is it used? Is it for emulating hardware or something? I only use clipping while mastering
-to achieve loudness- not so much for 'creative' purposes. Does anyone have examples of usage of the 2 thresholds?
Anyway, I bought the plugin and I regret I haven't done sooner. Thanks for creating such a great plugin for a decent price.
Best,
Dirk
Yesterday I bought ClipShifter because I was looking for a clipper with a gain reduction meter. This price is right, I used the 'master brickwall' preset and that's what I was looking for. Until now I used Stillwell's Event Horizon+, great plugin but no GR meter.
I'm addicted to reading manuals and this is what I came across:
'The release time works as a multiple of the attack time' and '... the fast release button can be enabled.'
The release time is changeable in ms and I don't see a 'fast release button'. Is it possible that these were functions of previous versions?
And now the big question; I never encoutered a dynamic plugin with 2 thresholds. I think I do understand the idea but how and when is it used? Is it for emulating hardware or something? I only use clipping while mastering
-to achieve loudness- not so much for 'creative' purposes. Does anyone have examples of usage of the 2 thresholds?
Anyway, I bought the plugin and I regret I haven't done sooner. Thanks for creating such a great plugin for a decent price.
Best,
Dirk
- KVRian
- 509 posts since 1 May, 2006 from lancaster, pa
Well, you definitely found a typo in the manual. ClipShifter previously had a 'fast release' button. Now it has a separate release control knob. Thank you for finding my mistake. Plus, thank you for actually reading the manual.
The two thresholds control the "real" threshold. On the waveform display, you will see a black line that is somewhere between the Initial Threshold and the End Threshold. This is the actual threshold where clipping is occurring. The real threshold shifts, depending on the settings and the incoming audio.
For individual tracks that need to sound more dirty, I like to set the initial threshold to something low like -10 dB. I then set the ending threshold to something like -3 dB. The result is that the initial signal is clipped more since the real threshold starts at -10 dB. If the incoming signal continues to be above -10 dB, the real threshold will start to migrate towards -3 dB. Try this on a track, and then hit the link button. When both buttons are set to the same level, ClipShifter functions like many other clippers. You should be able to hear an audible difference. When link is enabled, you will probably hear more distortion.
On mix buses, I like to flip flop the settings. I set initial to -1 dB, and the end to -3 dB. When you increase the gain, you can cause the real threshold to fluctuate between the two values. So a signal that is above -1 dB will be clipped, and then cause the real threshold to start moving toward -3 dB.
I have not tried to model anything in the analog world, but I do think that there are some parallels to some analog gear. For example, transformers distort more once they start to distort (if that makes any sense). The threshold for distortion is not a fixed level. They become overloaded, and the distortion occurs at a lower input level. This is similar to the second example, with the initial threshold set higher than the ending threshold.
Let me know if that helps at all.
The two thresholds control the "real" threshold. On the waveform display, you will see a black line that is somewhere between the Initial Threshold and the End Threshold. This is the actual threshold where clipping is occurring. The real threshold shifts, depending on the settings and the incoming audio.
For individual tracks that need to sound more dirty, I like to set the initial threshold to something low like -10 dB. I then set the ending threshold to something like -3 dB. The result is that the initial signal is clipped more since the real threshold starts at -10 dB. If the incoming signal continues to be above -10 dB, the real threshold will start to migrate towards -3 dB. Try this on a track, and then hit the link button. When both buttons are set to the same level, ClipShifter functions like many other clippers. You should be able to hear an audible difference. When link is enabled, you will probably hear more distortion.
On mix buses, I like to flip flop the settings. I set initial to -1 dB, and the end to -3 dB. When you increase the gain, you can cause the real threshold to fluctuate between the two values. So a signal that is above -1 dB will be clipped, and then cause the real threshold to start moving toward -3 dB.
I have not tried to model anything in the analog world, but I do think that there are some parallels to some analog gear. For example, transformers distort more once they start to distort (if that makes any sense). The threshold for distortion is not a fixed level. They become overloaded, and the distortion occurs at a lower input level. This is similar to the second example, with the initial threshold set higher than the ending threshold.
Let me know if that helps at all.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1800 posts since 10 Feb, 2007
Yes, it helps.
So if you set the end threshold higher than the intial threshold, the clipping (and distortion) gets less and less (depending on the release setting), in comparison to linked thresholds, right?
So if you set the end threshold higher than the intial threshold, the clipping (and distortion) gets less and less (depending on the release setting), in comparison to linked thresholds, right?
- KVRian
- 509 posts since 1 May, 2006 from lancaster, pa
Yes. ClipShifter evaluates the signal level constantly. If the incoming signal level is greater than the real threshold, the real threshold changes toward the end threshold. If the signal is less, than the real threshold changes towards the initial setting. The timing of how fast the threshold changes is based on the attack and release controls.manducator wrote: So if you set the end threshold higher than the initial threshold, the clipping (and distortion) gets less and less (depending on the release setting), in comparison to linked thresholds, right?
So if you look at the screenshot below, the squiggly line is floating between the initial and end thresholds. So clipping is occurring, but at different places. So the first peak may clip at -1.1 dB, then the next peak clips at -1.1000001 dB, then after several hundred more peaks, the threshold might be at -2 dB, etc. (of course, I am making up those numbers). Then the next peak might not be that high, so the clipping threshold shifts back to -1.99999 dB. If the signal doesn't reach -1.9999, then it doesn't clip at all, but ClipShifter continues to move the threshold back toward the initial threshold setting.
I think the end result is that you can achieve more subtle clipping on tracks by playing with the initial and end thresholds. You can also increase the overall volume of tracks or mixes without significant amounts of audible distortion. The distortion is still there, but often times you can gain extra dBs without it being unpleasant. One of the main reasons I made ClipShifter was because I heard someone talk about using a clipper in place of a limiter on the master track. In doing research, I found some claims that clipping can actually produce a more transparent result. I make no claim that ClipShifter is a replacement for a good limiter, but I do think it is a versatile tool (IMHO) for tracks and buses.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1800 posts since 10 Feb, 2007
I always have been convinced by that. That's why I bought ClipShifter...random_id wrote:One of the main reasons I made ClipShifter was because I heard someone talk about using a clipper in place of a limiter on the master track. In doing research, I found some claims that clipping can actually produce a more transparent result.
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Simon Morrison Simon Morrison https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=246134
- KVRist
- 104 posts since 22 Dec, 2010 from California
Here is an example using ClipShifter as a mastering clipper - the input signal is peaking at +6dBFS.
ClipShifter is trimming everything down to -0.9 dB ~ -0.1 dB with very little distortion:
ClipShifter is trimming everything down to -0.9 dB ~ -0.1 dB with very little distortion:
Simon Morrison • Audio Architect • Mastering Engineer • Music Technologist
[ www.MorrisonStudios.com ]
[ www.MorrisonStudios.com ]
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1800 posts since 10 Feb, 2007
Ok, I got it; the first transient got clipped @ -0.9 dB and then the clipping alters to -0.1 dB (over 150 ms). When there is no clipping anymore, the trheshold changes back to -0.9 dB (and it takes 1500 ms to do so).Simon Morrison wrote:Here is an example using ClipShifter as a mastering clipper - the input signal is peaking at +6dBFS.
ClipShifter is trimming everything down to -0.9 dB ~ -0.1 dB with very little distortion
- Banned
- 10196 posts since 12 Mar, 2012 from the Bavarian Alps to my feet and the globe around my head
Is it smoother (less distortion) than a brickwall limiter because of the 2 thresholds?Simon Morrison wrote:Here is an example using ClipShifter as a mastering clipper - the input signal is peaking at +6dBFS.
ClipShifter is trimming everything down to -0.9 dB ~ -0.1 dB with very little distortion...
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Simon Morrison Simon Morrison https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=246134
- KVRist
- 104 posts since 22 Dec, 2010 from California
I find the clipping algorithm to be more transparent than some brickwall limiters, especially with high input levels.Tricky-Loops wrote:Is it smoother (less distortion) than a brickwall limiter because of the 2 thresholds?Simon Morrison wrote:Here is an example using ClipShifter as a mastering clipper - the input signal is peaking at +6dBFS.
ClipShifter is trimming everything down to -0.9 dB ~ -0.1 dB with very little distortion...
Simon Morrison • Audio Architect • Mastering Engineer • Music Technologist
[ www.MorrisonStudios.com ]
[ www.MorrisonStudios.com ]
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1800 posts since 10 Feb, 2007
A mastering limiter takes the whole track and brings the volume down by the amount that the threshold is surpassed. So it turns all sounds down, the whole mix. That can cause pumping.
A clipper cuts off the peaks but doesn't mess with the rest of the data. If those peaks are short, the distortion is unnoticable and the result does sound more transparent.
I guess...
A clipper cuts off the peaks but doesn't mess with the rest of the data. If those peaks are short, the distortion is unnoticable and the result does sound more transparent.
I guess...