The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[humanbeingbeing]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

I have to correct you in this point !

I have the manual of the boxed version of Ableton Live 8.0.1.
You can read there that it has PDC !

After many month of complaint on the Ableton forum,
with no concrete answer from Ableton,
they instead to fix it changed the manual and added
that Live 8's PDC has some restrictions.

I can clearly proof that this was added later on...

Now you can say they knew and forgot to mention for over 6-7 month,
or that they just wanted to cover this afterwards.
Decide for yourself !

But fact is they sold it without any mention of restriction,
and fixed instead the manual in later versions.

You're right ya know... this was pretty blatant, an edit... and somehow it slipped past the review sites, IMHO they make an active effort to downplay the issue, most people don't know it exists... or certainly how serious it is... it wasn't mentioned in the Live8 reviews.. I can happily say I was involved in having it brought up in CM for Live9... they would've got 10 points too, they lost one for no PDC automation.

[llze]

well, how can one hate them they`r cute

[humanbeingbeing]

well, how can one hate them they`r cute

I don't 'hate' them really, it's a tough word... I'm a vegan animal lover, but I am allergic and they freak me out a little too...

[pdxindy]

Can we please get back to bitwig?

[virtualmark]

You're absolutely right... and I sincerely apologise virtualmark, I feel like a dickhead now...your quote seemed to be responding to me, but I wasn't paying proper attention... but this PDC thing man, you wouldn't believe how much trouble it's caused me...time, money, sanity... the very thought of it makes my blood boil.

Lol no problem, I didn't want to upset anyone. This seems to be a good natured forum so I try not to get into arguments.

Yeah we're on the same side here, although I don't let it bother me. Ableton clearly don't care about their customers, but then neither do other companies - there's posts on the Cubase forums that go back years and are still unanswered.

Like I said, I just want a DAW that improves when enough of their customers want it to, so I really hope that Bitwig respond to their users when there's a problem. From what I've seen so far they seem to listen - a couple of years back people were asking about curved automation, they added it. People requested more midi editing tools, they responded by delaying the launch and adding them. So they seem pretty good so far.

[virtualmark]

From a developer point of view, PDC in Live is definitely a "feature" and not a "bug". A bug implies something does not work as designed, and it's clear Live was never designed to have PDC.

If PDC was half implemented and only worked sometimes that would be an actual "bug", but it was never included in the first place so it can't be a "bug".

Failing to comprehend this, or arguing otherwise because you don't like how it's designed, does not change the fact that PDC is ... in fact ... a feature request

Sorry to correct you on this point !

I have the manual of the boxed version of Ableton Live 8.0.1.
You can read there that it has PDC !

After many month of complaint on the Ableton forum,
with no concrete answer from Ableton,
they instead to make full PDC, changed the manual
and added info that Live 8's PDC has some restrictions.

I can clearly proof that this was added later on...

Now you can say they knew and forgot to mention this
for over 6-7 month, or that they just wanted to cover their mistake.
Decide for yourself !

But fact is they sold it without any mention of restriction,
and fixed instead the manual in later versions.

I'm sure others with early versions can confirm this too !

...and please don't kill me for my bad English

Yeah that was exactly my point - they even promised a fix on their forum at one point. But instead of doing some work, they just changed the manual, and changed the bug report to a feature request. What a cheek!

[humanbeingbeing]

You're absolutely right... and I sincerely apologise virtualmark, I feel like a dickhead now...your quote seemed to be responding to me, but I wasn't paying proper attention... but this PDC thing man, you wouldn't believe how much trouble it's caused me...time, money, sanity... the very thought of it makes my blood boil.

Lol no problem, I didn't want to upset anyone. This seems to be a good natured forum so I try not to get into arguments.

Yeah we're on the same side here, although I don't let it bother me. Ableton clearly don't care about their customers, but then neither do other companies - there's posts on the Cubase forums that go back years and are still unanswered.

Like I said, I just want a DAW that improves when enough of their customers want it to, so I really hope that Bitwig respond to their users when there's a problem. From what I've seen so far they seem to listen - a couple of years back people were asking about curved automation, they added it. People requested more midi editing tools, they responded by delaying the launch and adding them. So they seem pretty good so far.

Thanks for being good natured.. I apologize again... Bitwig will do it, I have every faith in them, from what I see, they're doing everything right.....

[humanbeingbeing]

It would be so cool if someone could do some PDC tests on 3rd party VSTs on a Bitwig beta.... I'm dying to know has this finally been resolved.

[llze]

[humanbeingbeing]

Sigh. ....well I guess with this united front of feature requests we'll probably see automation compensation (not "PDC") sometime in the next century.

[llze]

it would be plugin delay compensation in automation, ("PDCIA")

[humanbeingbeing]

Just out of curiosity, if you're not interested in 'PDCIA', what are you interested in? Presumably you dont use automation, so is it loops?, romplers?, sample packs? and although I love a bit of nostalgia, the grumpy cat meme is 2 years old now, what about some buddwiser frogs or whasssup! or 'wheres the beef?'--cue meme generator. or how about, *shock horror*: somthing original or constructive?

[llze]

since its a bitwig thread, we´re using cats, and im just not interested in stuff thats going on in ableton, thats all..
i`m a cubase user, so no problem there, and besides that i`m not much into making music lately cause i`m learning for exams, wich is why i spend more time online.

ps: not using any samples, loops or romplers besides from one shot drums sometimes^^ i use Zebra, Diva, Sylenth and Massive usually, so automation in general is an important thing, and i also would like to know about this in Bitwig.

[pdxindy]

Just out of curiosity, if you're not interested in 'PDCIA', what are you interested in? Presumably you dont use automation, so is it loops?, romplers?, sample packs? and although I love a bit of nostalgia, the grumpy cat meme is 2 years old now, what about some buddwiser frogs or whasssup! or 'wheres the beef?'--cue meme generator. or how about, *shock horror*: somthing original or constructive?

I'm interested in Groove tools being added to Bitwig. That is one of the things I would rather miss from Live.

[humanbeingbeing]

I will miss groove tools too, but I can work around that with recycle, melodyne, or even *cough* Live, not ideal I grant you but I think Bitwig has betting grounding for it and you can even see the groundwork for it.