KVR Audio

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:35 pm

genre matters as well. pop piano is covered very well by lots of libraries. classical piano with complex pedaling loses realism really fast. The more room involved, the faster the realism is lost. jazz is a mixed bag. I've heard some really awesome jazz piano come from really basic libraries like the stock Kontakt stuff. But, then I've heard really expensive stuff sound exactly like a piano library. There's something plasticy sounding about modeling pianos for me still.

Roman Empire · Post by **Roman Empire** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:13 pm

Not sure if this one was already mentioned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi_zySsnPXI

It´s been my togo piano ever since it came out because my philosophy as a composer is that the more basic a sound is, the more you´ll be challenged to squeeze something good out of it. If a supersaw would be my default sound for composition, it wouldn´t take much till things would sound great but obviously it´d turn out like a song without any nerve, detail and heart.
This piano sounds like an old honest piano that you need to tame, and not like a 200000 EUR grand on which everything sound pretty and polished.

Best Regards

Roman Empire

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:41 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:classical piano with complex pedaling loses realism really fast. The more room involved, the faster the realism is lost.

Well, again what I do involves a lot of editing. I rely on involved 'CC64' but I don't actually pedal. My sus pedal wore out years ago in fact.

The other thing is, people arguing on KVR about v.i.s is not real life, or even going to an audience of total musos. What's the music like? Does it work? But I think trying to be a concert pianist with a v.i. rather a fool's errand.

I want stereo and if I'm going to go with piano I'll take up some space. Not the whole stage but this 'Beatles where it's practically mono' argument isn't anything to me. I seem to trot out the August Foerster in Kontakt 2 Factory more often than not. It's not exactly state-of-the-art. I partially agree that having a limited instrument is a good discipline.

Once it was the stage piano in VSL SE Percussion, kind of dreadful in itself but
https://youtu.be/73uS7rrAd_8?t=1m7s

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:42 pm

that 4 Front thing sounds perfect for what that is

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:45 pm

jancivil wrote: But I think trying to be a concert pianist with a v.i. rather a fool's errand.

That was my point. I think vi pianos work great a lots of production scenarios, and usually you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. And as your video points out, sometimes cheese is the goal.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:51 am

well, cheese was not my goal I must say
the (middle of the) 1st thing reminded my former close musical-partner-in-crime (a pianist and well-known to the Rock in Opposition crowd) of Keith Jarrett and t'other is modern harmonic vocabulary, relatively dissonant, so I donno.

Satie's Prelude, Act III of le fils étoiles there does contain a kind of cheesy tune, a very peculiar composition to boot which I essentially abandoned, however. I posted that as the antithesis to the whole dry, spare st. field notion basically

But again, this whole area has no moment to any listener outside KVR/VI Forums et al, really

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:59 am

jancivil wrote:well, cheese was not my goal I must say
the (middle of the) 1st thing reminded my former close musical-partner-in-crime (a pianist and well-known to the Rock in Opposition crowd) of Keith Jarrett and t'other is modern harmonic vocabulary, relatively dissonant, so I donno.

Satie's Prelude, Act III of le fils étoiles there does contain a kind of cheesy tune, a very peculiar composition to boot which I essentially abandoned, however. I posted that as the antithesis to the whole dry, spare st. field notion basically

But again, this whole area has no moment to any listener outside KVR/VI Forums et al, really

Hmm.. I may have used a bad term. I actually like retro things like that. Playing just outside the style I guess. Cheese was not used pajoritavily.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:02 pm

ah, it's subjective language, I'm not worried just sayin'
the one thing 'Fantasy' is an interesting failure I think , I nearly excluded it from the catalog.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:10 pm

jancivil wrote:ah, it's subjective language, I'm not worried just sayin'
the one thing 'Fantasy' is an interesting failure I think , I nearly excluded it from the catalog.

Another example is the bar room player piano sound of old school honky tonk/ragtime. It is a bit "cheesy", just because it is almost a parody style now. However, it can be fun to play and listen to in the right scenario.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:29 pm

That VSL SE Stage Piano or whatever they call it reminded me, particularly with the EQ preset they made for it, of the Yahama Electric Grand. I originally will have had my friend play on it so the section is a quasi-homage. I did sound for his band for a very short time, I hated that sound. I hate it with Tommy Mars with Zappa at the time, ca 1979-80.

No, what I did is not actually a terrible sound like that but it wasn't like working with a 'good' sound either. It reminded one person of a tack piano solo on some (avant-rock) record, in fact.

that 4Front vid up there is a cliché sound. nothing wrong with that

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:04 pm

I get this is modelling and may not be to taste, but I got pianoteq stage on sale some time back and that thing is smooth. Sometimes I'll just find live midi piano performances and listen to them with pianoteq and then switch pianos and listen to that version. You can hear all the nuances. Now you guys have good enough ears that it might not sound real enough...

Terrafractyl · Post by **Terrafractyl** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:03 pm

People are always going to differ on these things, I've spent my life playing real piano's as my mum was a piano teacher, and I like to think I am pretty picky when it comes to piano plugs and I'll pick a library over physical model still! But ultimately we are all trying to find something different in an instrument.

For example to me that 4front piano, sounds a million miles far away from a real instument. (again IMO)

I also agree that some piano libraries sound great in some mix's / genres and terrible in others.

I've been using addictive Keys a lot lately and I find it a nice all rounder, with a tiny footprint. Plus I quite like the Electric Piano in there too.

Its been years since I tried Pianoteq, but last time I did was surprised again at how many people were praising its realism, as to me it sounded horribly fake. I think that was a couple of versions ago though, might be time to give it another go.

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:28 pm

I never heard the Pianoteq before this one, but I've read that it has improved quite a lot. I agree on Addictive Keys and definitely on the Electric grand. I had the AK three pack and wanted the electric and fortunately Focusrite gave an AK piano to everyone with an interface from them. Quite happy about that.

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:41 pm

Terrafractyl wrote:Its been years since I tried Pianoteq, but last time I did was surprised again at how many people were praising its realism, as to me it sounded horribly fake. I think that was a couple of versions ago though, might be time to give it another go.

I think it's obvious that you don't know much about the latest Pianoteq progressions.

Piano libraries are too fake (opinion)