Kontakt sounds worse in Reaper when audio preferences are not set correctly

[whyterabbyt]

Just for the record, here's what the offline processing refers to, from the document you linked to. As it says, its 'a powerful API that allows a plug-in to freely read audio files open in the host, to transform them or to generate new audio files.' Obviously that doesn't sound particularly relevant to 'plugin quality settings', so you could perhaps point out which of the items in the list are relevant to these issues.

Steinberg Virtual Studio Technology Plug-In Specification
Software Development Kit 2.0
Page 59 of 84
What’s New in VST 2.0 – Reference Section
VST Offline Processing
Introduction
The VST offline interface is a powerful API that allows a plug-in to freely read audio files open in
the host, to transform them or to generate new audio files. The main features are:
* The plug-in controls reading/writing of audio samples by sending commands to the host
(this approach is the reverse of the mechanism used in the real-time interface).
* A plug-in can read, simultaneously and with random-access, any number of files open in the host.
* A plug-in can overwrite part or all of any open file in the host, with random access.
* A plug-in can create one or more files (temporary ones or not).
* Any file created by the plug-in can be freely re-read and overwritten, with random access, during
the process.
* Thanks to "delayed overwriting", original samples in source files are preserved in all cases and
can be read again, at will and at any time during a process.
* Not only audio can be read/written in files: markers can be created; sample selection can be set;
edit cursor can be moved. Moreover, custom parameters can be written along a file, with a time
stamp, and read again later, by the same plug-in or another one.
* No stereo assumption: could be used for multi-channel files, if the host supports it.
* An offline plug-in can be used as a file transformer, as a file analyzer or as a file generator.
* An offline plug-in does not deal directly with file i/o and file formats: it just sends read and write
commands with float buffers, resulting in great simplification.
* An offline-capable plug-in is notified by the host anytime a change occurs in the set of files
available for editing (new open file, transformed file, new marker created in a file, etc.). This allows
the plug-in, if necessary, to update its user interface according to the context (e.g. new file with the
focus; or to show a list of files to pick from; etc.)

[WOK]

If Kontakt is set to offline render 'Perfect', and you render offline with Reaper at defaults, Kontakt doesn't really render 'Perfect', and that's the whole point here, which you missed completely, on account of your own incompetence.

So what's the problem than to turn on the option "Notify plugins of offline render state"???

Maybe there are other DAWs too that have kind of "save" defaults, of which some need to be changed for optimized results in specific situations?

I still don't get what this whole thread is about - you found out that a default option in you DAW was not set optimal for one of your plugins, and instead of just clicking on it and continue living, you start a boo hoo thread with a silly title? (and even bleat about "incompetence" of others....)
 

[trimph1]

I'm sure the sound is fine.

That's silly.

You're being silly.

Check Image-line's site for their FL11 manual ...particularly the Saw Wars chapter.

There is no fracking difference between daws soundwise..

So Kontakt is lying when it says it's using lower-quality interpolation for online renders? Do you even begin to understand the issue? I programmed the world's first commercial software synth. I aced CCRMA. If you want to interpret the "Saw Wars chapter" as are you're doing, that's your problem.

Daw Wars....fricking autocorrect..

[trimph1]

Your title is misleading then....le sigh.

[BachRules]

Reaper only really has one 'default' setting - it's called 'you choose'.

I agree:

Software devs, especially those less capable or less diligent, take note of this customer base, because they are easy. Set those defaults randomly. Don't even set them. Let the bits fall where they will.

[aMUSEd]

I think that's the point of it not being set, the starting 'null state' position for Reaper is probably not best seen as a 'default' in the sense of this is the 'optimal' position, but when you have 2 options buttons can only be on or off and they leave as much as possible up to the user to set consciously. In terms of interface design that's a pretty good principle; generally if settings are set to 'on' they are less visible to users than if they are set to 'off' and the user has to choose whether or not to set them. Reaper's philosophy, if it has one, is very much that they provide information for users to make those choices for themselves, so all options give you info about what they do when you mouse on them. I know some people don't like all the options and I see their point too but really there is some intelligence behind this.

[whyterabbyt]

I think that's the point of it not being set, the starting 'null state' position for Reaper is probably not best seen as a 'default' in the sense of this is the 'optimal' position, but when you have 2 options buttons can only be on or off and they leave as much as possible up to the user to set consciously. In terms of interface design that's a pretty good principle; generally if settings are set to 'on' they are less visible to users than if they are set to 'off' and the user has to choose whether or not to set them. Reaper's philosophy, if it has one, is very much that they provide information for users to make those choices for themselves, so all options give you info about what they do when you mouse on them. I know some people don't like all the options and I see their point too but really there is some intelligence behind this.

There's also the fact that with this particular default, what you hear is what you get. Its not necessarily a secure position that the better default is getting something different from what you hear.
However, its certainly not a bug, as was claimed to be 'fact.'
Also, despite what was claimed, the VST spec provided in evidence does not appear to define a host's relevant mandatory behaviour, either in explicitly having to support offline rendering at all, or what its default behaviour should be.

[lachrimae]

I'm not happy with KVR's defaults.

Here's the fix:

[EvilDragon]

So Kontakt is lying when it says it's using lower-quality interpolation for online renders?

Did you even read that I told that offline rendering interpolation quality doesn't even matter in a lot of circumstances (chromatically samples libraries)?

Also, despite what was claimed, the VST spec provided in evidence does not appear to define a host's relevant mandatory behaviour, either in explicitly having to support offline rendering at all, or what its default behaviour should be.

That's true. Fact.

[roland_rock]

I agree with the OP that it is daft that Reaper's default setting is not to inform plugins about offline rendering. But that is all - a bit daft. Not long after installing Reaper I went through the varous options and set them to suit my needs. That included the offline rendering setting. I think it would be unusual for someone to continue to use any application without customising at least some of the settings to suit them. If you were unhappy with the results of offline rendering you would investigate, make the setting and be happy again. To contine to use it with the 'wrong' setting (and talk about how poor it sounds) when you know how to correct it seems a bit weird. Or are you sayng that even after ticking the option, you have found that Reaper still does not tell plugins when it is offline rendering?

There are a lot of options in Reaper, which can seem daunting, but it really is worth going through them and setting them to suit your own circumstances.

I'm also not convinced that the part of the VST spec referenced on p60 of that doc actually concerns offline rendering of VST instruments - reading it, it seems more concerned with allowing plugins to do offline (i.e. random access as opposed to sequential streamed access) processing of audio files. In fact it seems that particular function may not be supported by many hosts (e.g. see http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7&t=369997)

By the way, BachRules, what was the name of the world's first commercial software synth that you programmed? Sounds interesting! I've been playing about with electronic music for a long time now (strictly amateur) so I might even remember it...

[HobbyCore]

I programmed the world's first commercial software synth.

Oh shit, it's Dave Smith!

Guys, you need to chill out, you don't know who you're talking to!

[jancivil]

Are you just too stupid to grasp "If Kontakt is set to offline render 'Perfect', then Reaper's sound is that, through its summing ultimately."?

If Kontakt is set to offline render 'Perfect', and you render offline with Reaper at defaults, Kontakt doesn't really render 'Perfect', and that's the whole point here, which you missed completely, on account of your own incompetence.

Sez you. I didn't take issue with that point. You make that into 'Reaper's sound', which is completely absurd. And I think you know it, but you believe this kind of shite shores up the whole trolling, stirring shit up exercise of this STUPID THREAD.

And maybe you do have a problem with basic reasoning. At least you distort my point completely and you are desperate to deflect from the flagrant absurdity of what I addressed by fabricating a tale about me failing to understand something I actually described.

[BachRules]

roland_rock, I meant Satie, Reality, and AWE32. More when I'm off my phone.

[roland_rock]

roland_rock, I meant Satie, Reality, and AWE32. More when I'm off my phone.

Cool! I had to look up Satie and Reality (I was still very much into hardware synths in those days) but I definitely remember the Soundblaster AWE32! I didn't have one, but I did have a similar ISA soundcard with built-in synth (though I never used the synth part - just ended up using it as a MIDI interface).

So... does that mean you are Stanley Jungleib? Presumably there was more than just Stanley in Seer Systems though.
http://seersystems.com/1991/11/

[BachRules]

So Kontakt is lying when it says it's using lower-quality interpolation for online renders?

Did you even read that I told that offline rendering interpolation quality doesn't even matter in a lot of circumstances (chromatically samples libraries)?

I did read it and contemplated it, and thought, what about people using non-chromatic libraries. Does EvilDragon think they are sub-human. What is the deal?

Also I wondered whether Kontakt's "interpolation" is limited to pitch-changing samples, or whether it might come in to play in other areas too. I don't know the answer there.