KVR Audio

Mister Natural · Post by **Mister Natural** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:05 am

"Auxiliary audio outputs of certain VST plug-ins would not be delay-compensated anymore."

sounds like they are working on this :
>>Hello,

We saw issues with timed effect, such as delays, gates & stutter effects etc that would be out of time all depending on how long the plugin chain was, but only on AUX return channels and only with certain plugins.

We plan on a fairly short beta phase for this hotfix so you would help us greatly by dropping by the beta forum and give us feedback. https://ableton.centercode.com

For this hotfix we are testing:

- Plugin functionality
- Rewire
- Push

Best,
Mads<<

mcnelson · Post by **mcnelson** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:45 am

Hello Beta testers,

We have just uploaded the 9.1.4b1 to address a few problems we introduced with the 9.1.3 release.
We aim for a very short beta cycle for this hotfix so you would help us greatly by helping us test the following:

Wouldn't get your hopes up for a PDC overhaul in Live 9.

"Prove me wrong kids......prove me wrong"

Seymour Skinner

NMG

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:59 pm

I haven't installed the beta yet. Maybe today.

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:02 pm

mcnelson wrote:
Hello Beta testers,

We have just uploaded the 9.1.4b1 to address a few problems we introduced with the 9.1.3 release.
We aim for a very short beta cycle for this hotfix so you would help us greatly by helping us test the following:
Wouldn't get your hopes up for a PDC overhaul in Live 9.

"Prove me wrong kids......prove me wrong"
Seymour Skinner

NMG

I think you're referencing the longstanding Live PDC debate, this seems to be a separate issue. There's PDC in Live for quite some time, problem is that it doesn't apply to any automation you may have in your projects.
Apparently they've broken some PDC functions that did exist and this release aims to fix them - not to introduce a full on PDC as in other hosts (unfortunately, but this is how I read it).

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:05 pm

That's what I thought

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:29 pm

Yeah, after years of discussions about this, they wouldn't be calling it a "hot fix" if they'd decide to change it.

blackflag · Post by **blackflag** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:31 pm

They won't fix that bug until it actually starts hurting their sales, and I'm willing to bet half the people who purchase it don't even know what PDC means.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:59 pm

Hosts are tough baby, tough goings. Every one of them has a fatal flaw.

I'm either too stupid to realize I'm running into it, or the way I use live it's not a deal. I no longer can remember.

crashedthecar · Post by **crashedthecar** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:43 am

Same hib. I'm having a good time with live at the mo.

So have I got this right?, if you add any automation after you add you vsts, there shouldn't be any timing issues?

ezelkow1 · Post by **ezelkow1** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:54 am

I believe its that automation is not compensated for delays introduced by plugins in the chain. I.e. you have a synth followed by some plugins that add delay. If you then automate something on the synth (or anything before the delay inducing plugins) that automation is now off by the amount of delay that was introduced by the plugins

The audio is compensated across all tracks, but gui/automation is not. So your audio will be shifted properly to compensate for delay but the automations remain on their absolute positions that you put them into the grid, which are now wrong because the audio has shifted because of the delay

crashedthecar · Post by **crashedthecar** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:48 am

Cheers ezelkow, got it

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:56 am

Tempo synced plugins are triggered at wrong timing

Mister Natural · Post by **Mister Natural** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:52 am

have to admit that I'm with Hibidy on this as I've never "felt" a timing issue - no matter how many / which plugs I've used

I respect that there are some more advanced users who have had & reported problems with third-party vst and their timing inaccuracies. I don't judge

I also won't play with "beta" developments but am glad that Ableton is addressing(at least in some manner) the concerns of those who have felt timing issues in the past. This platform is so damned good; I hate to see some turned away from the possibilities within their creativity that LIVE allows by something like pdc (whatever it is)

peace

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:16 am

I use a really low latency. Maybe it helps.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:29 am

hibidy wrote:I use a really low latency. Maybe it helps.

Not really.

The PDC thing is relative. If a certain plugin needs say 10ms of latency then all the other plugins will be delayed by that amount when you hit play. The more plugins that have latency the more it adds up. You could have 0 latency on your setup, but that one plugin that needs a bit of look ahead time is going to throw everything else out of whack. And to confuse things more it is the automation that is affected.

They are two different things anyway (the latency and pdc). One is the latency between the plugins and the host (and how the host compensates for differences in different plugins). The other is the latency between the host and the system (which is determined by your soundcard and how fast a cpu you have etc.).

I think. Maybe I got that totally wrong. If so, do explain...

I've not noticed the problem either really, except for sometimes when I listen back to a render it is all over the f**king shop. I thought I was going mad. But now I know what it is. Still having difficulty understanding it in real world terms though. Even when it is explained to me like here -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbFzRTZT8Q8

Most of the time it doesn't affect me, but I wish they would sort it out once and for all.

LIVE9.1.4beta - PDC issue