KVR Audio

Markku · Post by **Markku** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:47 pm

Due to several worrying cases lately (deaths and other misfortunes which cause businesses to end) I began to wonder, which synths will stop working if their makers vanish?

If the synth uses serial number, license file or something like that, they will be usable until the technology they use gets old. But those synths which require actual internet connection will cease to function if their maker's servers are not there any more...

I guess this is always the case, if the maker of copy protection is separate company. For example if makers of some e-licensing company goes bankrupt and vanishes, synth makers can still replace the copy protection (if they are still capable, that is).

So, what I am actually asking: which synths will stop working if their makers goes out of business?

If the makers themselves want, they can tell if they have contingency plans, altough it IS unpleasant situation to even think about for them.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:56 pm

It's one of the problems of software man. Back up your hard drive regularly, software will NOT work for ever. By the time it becomes unusable tho, the thought is you will want to upgrade and move on anyway. If you are worried about, are single, and have your own place ... go hardware. There are two real conveniences of software.... It takes up little space and is portable, and in many cases it can do stuff hardware can not yet. Those are the benefits of software. There are many downsides as well. These guys survive on you continuing to buy new stuff tho. We now live in a temporary world, get used to it, or disconnect. It's the pitfalls of a digital society.

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:03 pm

Dasheesh wrote:It's one of the problems of software man. Back up your hard drive regularly, software will NOT work for ever. By the time it becomes unusable tho, the thought is you will want to upgrade and move on anyway. If you are worried about, are single, and have your own place ... go hardware. There are two real conveniences of software.... It takes up little space and is portable, and in many cases it can do stuff hardware can not yet. Those are the benefits of software. There are many downsides as well. These guys survive on you continuing to buy new stuff tho. We now live in a temporary world, get used to it, or disconnect. It's the pitfalls of a digital society.

Not entirely true.

As OP asked, what happens to software, that need internet to run, no backup will help you, as soon as the developer stops (for what reasons ever). And THAT sucks.

basslinemaster · Post by **basslinemaster** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:06 pm

I totally disagree with just about everything Dasheesh says. This is a worry to me, as Camel Audio vanished with no warning, and even if there had been a warning, if the developer uses challenge/response, you can no longer use your software if you ever have to reinstall it (such as when you reinstall Windows, or upgrade to a later version of Windows).
So I now take this into consideration when buying software. You would think that a developer that 'went under' would be kind enough to continue to run a server that runs challenge/response codes, maybe by charging owners £5 to reinstall software (which would be better than not being able to reinstall it ever again!)
Maybe some sort of project could be set up by developers, where they can join an organization that promises it will continue to honour challenge/response (or serial number generation, etc.) for their products - this would make potential customers feel more secure in buying from them.

SuitcaseOfLizards · Post by **SuitcaseOfLizards** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:22 pm

If your software needs to {"phone home" on install or periodically, and the server vanishes forever, you're f**ked.

If NI dies, or Steinberg croaks, Kontakt, Absynth, etc. - Padshop Pro, Dark Planet - no re-installs for me.

Thankfully my mos-used synths are keyfile or serial number, so if the world ends and one of the Big Boys unexpectedly goes tits-up, I'm not dead in the water.

Normally any kind of required online registration/eDongle/etc. is an instant no-buy, but I have a fair amount of confidence in NI and Steinberg to let it pass (not to mention I have slightly less-powerful replacements that don't require Internet access).

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:24 pm

basslinemaster wrote:I totally disagree with just about everything Dasheesh says. This is a worry to me, as Camel Audio vanished with no warning, and even if there had been a warning, if the developer uses challenge/response, you can no longer use your software if you ever have to reinstall it (such as when you reinstall Windows, or upgrade to a later version of Windows).
So I now take this into consideration when buying software. You would think that a developer that 'went under' would be kind enough to continue to run a server that runs challenge/response codes, maybe by charging owners £5 to reinstall software (which would be better than not being able to reinstall it ever again!)
Maybe some sort of project could be set up by developers, where they can join an organization that promises it will continue to honour challenge/response (or serial number generation, etc.) for their products - this would make potential customers feel more secure in buying from them.

I think easier and better in such a situation would be to launch a "free" version that ever body can download, and nobody would have any hassles later. E.g. turn off any protections. For the paying customers this would be of course a nice clean head shot

but still better this way than having software that doesn't work at all any longer

That still doesn't backup situation, where a one man developing company dies (literally). In such a case only if there is a knowledge backup, the service could continue. Otherwise the software also dies.

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:25 pm

I wonder what would happen if Pace died...

Nightpolymath · Post by **Nightpolymath** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:49 pm

Some usage agreements provide for a clause that guarantee continued use of the software should the vendor be unable to continue providing online activation keys for whatever business reason (going under, etc) I think it was NI but I have to double check.

There is a big difference between owning intellectual property and paying for the privilege to use it, and for how long. For better or for worse, business models are continually changing (Office/Adobe/etc) where software rental is becoming the norm as opposed to buying a CD of the program with serial number.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:51 pm

The real question to be asking here is how many years of use should you expect out of software? I've found that you usually get a good amount of use out the software. I expect 10 years of use out of the bigger guys personally. The smaller guys are up for debate but they are more cost efficient as well. I've been screwed a few times on software based companies going tits up... Emagic, use audio...off the top of my head. I'm sure there were more.

ValliSoftware · Post by **ValliSoftware** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:09 pm

Markku wrote:Due to several worrying cases lately (deaths and other misfortunes which cause businesses to end) I began to wonder, which synths will stop working if their makers vanish?

If the synth uses serial number, license file or something like that, they will be usable until the technology they use gets old. But those synths which require actual internet connection will cease to function if their maker's servers are not there any more...

I guess this is always the case, if the maker of copy protection is separate company. For example if makers of some e-licensing company goes bankrupt and vanishes, synth makers can still replace the copy protection (if they are still capable, that is).

So, what I am actually asking: which synths will stop working if their makers goes out of business?

If the makers themselves want, they can tell if they have contingency plans, altough it IS unpleasant situation to even think about for them.

Looks like picking Logic and sticking with Logic Pro X was a good choice for me.
Especially if it's true that Camel Audio was bought by Apple.
More instruments for free and included with Logic Pro XI.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:22 pm

Not to to get too dark, but you are not going to live forever. Worrying about the longevity of some software developer brings with it the assumption that you are going to outlive them.

When I bought my first Toyota Camry hybrid in 2007, I was concerned about the estimated ten year life of the battery. In 2012, that car was totaled in a high speed accident (not my fault!).

Entropy can be a real bitch.

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:32 pm

Dasheesh wrote:The real question to be asking here is how many years of use should you expect out of software? I've found that you usually get a good amount of use out the software. I expect 10 years of use out of the bigger guys personally. The smaller guys are up for debate but they are more cost efficient as well. I've been screwed a few times on software based companies going tits up... Emagic, use audio...off the top of my head. I'm sure there were more.

On Windows you can expect at least 10 years minimum as this is how long Windows long term support works. In practice this could easily be stretched to 20 years or more as Unlike Apple Microsoft is very good at providing compatibility between OS versions.

Kaboom75 · Post by **Kaboom75** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:34 pm

All of them.
One day you will want that new OS or DAW . Some of your discontinued plugins won't work because nobody can update them to be compatible. This is less worrying if you have Windows 7 - 8.1 and all your plugins are already 64bit. Windows 10 is nearly finished but I don't think it is a must have if you already have Win 7.

I like the way Kerbal Space Program is handled. It's in beta now, every time a new version comes out half the addons are no longer compatible. The addon makers have to keep updating them or if they decide to quit many of them pass on the rights of their addons to someone else to keep updating.

So theirs always new verions of KSP and new versions of the addons even though many addon makers quit supporting them. A shame the music plugin industry can't do the same.

Nightpolymath · Post by **Nightpolymath** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:36 pm

I am not too worried about plugin companies going under, though. Now if Valve/Steam went belly up we will have a mutiny on our hands.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:38 pm

Markku wrote:Due to several worrying cases lately (deaths and other misfortunes which cause businesses to end) I began to wonder, which synths will stop working if their makers vanish?

As the probability is very low, is it even worth a thought? Yes, Camel Audio is out of business now. That's one out of a 1000 of companies.

Which synths stop working if...?