How we feel about music and our own compositions

[MattMVS7]

Note to Reader: Just read the final paragraph if everything I'm saying here is too much to read. The final paragraph makes the most important point.

How we feel about music is all subjective and all our own personal subjective opinions hold true for ourselves in terms of how we feel about works of art. If I feel that my songs convey strong emotion that I have composed, then that would hold true for me and my own personal life. But if you say that they don't convey strong emotion and/or that they convey mediocre emotion, then that would hold true only for you and your own personal life.

But if you are going to say something such as that:

"Except that's not true. There is a canonical body of music in the Western tradition that has established norms and conventions. You know what "heroic" music sounds like because five hundred years of composers wrote things that are heroic and aren't heroic and the difference is audible and discoverable through score analysis."

Then what I would have to say to this would be that so are you saying that since I feel that this song is heroic, then that means it is heroic since my analysis and conclusions were solely based on those norms and standards? As well as that if I think that my songs are really that great, then that also makes them great as well? But what about if your emotional interpretations of music are outside of those norms and standards and are your own personal feelings and interpretations? How those people established those norms and standards in the first place was all based on their own personal musical interpretations and feelings. Therefore, it was their own personal feelings and perceptions that have created these norms and standards and applies to those types of people who also share the same feelings and perceptions. But there are other people who have their own perceptions and feelings as well and we should respect those feelings and not say they are false and have scorn towards them. These norms and standards might apply to the majority of audiences, but you should not say that it would be false for someone to have a different musical interpretation. It would just simply mean here that this person has their own personal different feeling and interpretation.

Now there are two aspects of music here. One is the technical aspect which would involve the notes, harmony, how well a song is artistically crafted, etc. The 2nd aspect would be the emotional aspect which would be how we feel about music. Now I have never heard anyone say that there is an objective standard that determines our own feelings regarding works of art as being true or false. Imagine if I went up to a famous painting, spoke all the profound good feelings I felt about it, and then someone came up to me and said to me that my feelings are just false.

But as for the technical aspect, then I would have to agree that there is an objective standard on that since we can scientifically determine how well crafted a song is. But as for our own personal values and feelings, that is all subjective. The emotional aspect of music is all that matters to me since I value emotions in music above all else here.

Now if you are going to say something to me such as that I have an ego problem and that you have every right to have scorn towards me, then we should and have every right to have egos. As long as we are not demeaning and/or harming other good people, then we have every right to have egos and to pursue our own greatness/value ourselves as much as possible as long as we are not demeaning and/or harming other good people.

Now greatness is all subjective and we find our own greatness in life. What we personally deem as great holds true for ourselves and we have every right to have that said greatness as long as we are not harming/demeaning other good innocent people. Therefore, the emotional aspect of my songs really are great in my own personal life and I am just trying to find others to relate to who also feel and perceive the way I do. You would have no right to demean that greatness I have found just as I would also have no right to demean your perceived greatness. Also, my family and friends genuinely value and care about me as well as my songs. They are not pretending that they like them either.

Now one last important point I would like to make in this post is that I AM planning on learning music theory and such later on when I am in the mood when I have my pleasure back. Therefore, do not forget and dismiss that since I do have value towards that only when I have my full pleasure back in life.

Now I said I was the cool calm intellectual type. Therefore, there is just simply no reason to have any scorn/agitation towards me. Since I have a cool calm intellectual attitude towards you, then you and everyone else should return the favor as well regardless of the things I say. You would only have the right to have scorn towards me if I had scorn towards you. I am not harming and having scorn towards you. I am just having a discussion here.

Finally, let's pretend that I did have all the necessary knowledge and experience of music I needed and I did perfect my compositions, then if others told me that they were not that great even though there doesn't need to be any more improvements on that song, the conveyed emotion in that song really was something great to me, and that the only way for me to create a better song would be for me to create a different song entirely that does convey something great, then that would be wrong of them. If these people are wanting me to improve in that regard, then they are only wanting me to improve from what they personally perceive as something great. I have my own perceived greatness in life and I live by that and I do not live by the values and greatness of others.

Also, it's only the emotional aspects of music that matters to me (the emotion that songs convey and how strongly they convey that emotion). If someone said to me that my song is not great simply because the technical aspects of the song weren't as great as other compositions even though the conveyed emotion was something strong and great to me, then this would be disrespectful and wrong of them. They would be disrespectful of my own personal values and greatness. They would have belittled the profound and great emotions that are conveyed in my compositions.

To me, how strong/profound emotions are in music and works of art is the only thing that determines their level of greatness. The technical aspects (how complex and well artistically crafted a work of art is), this does not matter at all to me. In other words, if you were to create a simple melody and/or yell it and this conveyed a powerful emotion, then that would make that song great. If you felt that it personally conveyed stronger emotion than even the greatest complex and well artistically crafted compositions in the world, then it really would be something that great. Therefore, I have every right to have this personal value and belief that greatness is all subjective and is determined by emotion alone. You should not disrespect that value and belief I hold just as I would have no right to disrespect your values and beliefs. I would only be disrespecting your values and beliefs if I had scorn towards you and called you names/lashed out towards you.

Now if I were to present a perfected composition of mine towards someone else and I thought that it conveyed emotion in that song that was great and made that song something great, then the attitude they should have towards me should be a respectful attitude towards my perceived greatness. They should say something to me such as "Your composition is really that great. However, I do not feel that from it simply because I have a different perceived greatness in life and I value other things. But I'm sure one day you will find someone who can relate to your perceived greatness who just might feel and perceive your composition like you. Therefore, I respect your perceived greatness and I want you to find those other people who can relate to you." The attitude I would then have in return towards this person would be "Thank you. I respect your perceived greatness which is that you do not feel that my composition is all that great and that you instead value other compositions as being greater." As a matter of fact, if this person so happened to think that one of his/her compositions conveyed great emotion and that made it the greatest masterpiece in the world since he/she feels that it conveys greater emotion, then I would respect that and would encourage that attitude and would encourage people to think they are all great as long as they don't use that attitude to harm and demean good innocent people.

Now I will and do choose to grow in terms of improving the technical aspects of my songs. But as long as the technical aspects have been perfected, then the emotion of the song is all that matters and is all subjective. If I feel that the emotion is very strong and great and that it makes my compositions great, then that holds true for me and others should respect that. You have no right to disrespect my perceived greatness and profound emotional musical perceptions as you are doing right now by having scorn towards me.I will and do choose to grow in terms of improving the technical aspects of my songs. But as long as the technical aspects have been perfected, then the emotion of the song is all that matters and is all subjective. If I feel that the emotion is very strong and great and that it makes my compositions great, then that holds true for me and others should respect that. You have no right to disrespect my perceived greatness and profound emotional musical perceptions as you are doing right now by having scorn towards me.

I would like to add one more important point here which is that morality is objective in a certain specific sense. It is objectively wrong to harm/scorn good people and their values. Therefore, it is objectively wrong to have scorn towards my perceived greatness towards the emotion in my compositions as long as I am not having any scorn towards you.

Now if you are going to say something such as that the only reason why I feel that my songs convey great emotions and such is because I have created these songs and just think they are all great. But this would be false. Even if I were to look at my songs as a creation of someone else, then I would still feel the same way about them. No matter how many times I listen to them and look at them as creations as someone else, I still feel the same way about them. Even when completely forgetting about them and finding other things of value in life, then I still feel the same way when listening to them.

Now a very important point I would like to make is that I am going to explain how things should work out here. It should work out that I should compose music to the likings of other people and how they want me to be a better composer and such. But at the same time, these people must also respect my perceived emotional greatness towards my compositions as they already are. They must tell me something such as that "Even though your compositions really are great in terms of their emotion since you feel that way in your own personal life, I also wish for you to compose in such a way for us and how we would like your compositions to be." If you respect my values and beliefs, then I will also respect yours and give you what you want in return. You should respect my values and beliefs since I am not harming/having scorn towards good innocent people.

Now another very important point I would like to make is that even if I were to scatter a bunch of random notes in a music notation program and play those notes, then I will derive emotion from this "melody" even though that "melody" is nothing more than just a bunch of random notes. So who knows, maybe the songs I hear in my head are also a bunch of random notes with no rhythm or harmony. It could be imagined rhythm and harmony in my mind. So perhaps I am attributing personality (emotion) to things that don't convey such personalities in the first place. But how could that be if music theory is the only thing that allows songs to convey emotion and that if it weren't for music theory and we just created a bunch of random notes, then there should be no conveyed emotion? The answer to that would be that maybe perhaps I am hearing these songs how they would actually be with real harmony and rhythm and am perceiving the emotion from that version rather than the version in which they are just a bunch of random notes. Perhaps I am unable to separate these two versions from one another and am fooled into perceiving that the flawed version I have just created in my youtube videos through my lack of musical knowledge and skill conveys great emotion just like the other version in my head which might have actual rhythm and harmony and does convey great emotion.

I would like to continue on with something here. What I find really odd is that I am also able to have different emotional musical interpretations regarding songs that are played in reverse that apparently no one else feels. For example, in this song "Love is a Battlefield" played in reverse, I feel a strong dramatic intense horror from that song (as though someone is being dragged to hell). So maybe there is some idealized version of this reversed song as well going on in my mind. Perhaps this idealized version is simply in a minor scale and the horrific emotion I am perceiving from this song is only from the minor scale version and not the major scale version. Therefore, here is this song and I describe how it feels to me in individual events:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqwnDtWFlIo

Now even though people are allowed to say how they feel about my music, they are not allowed to have scorn towards me and my emotional musical interpretations. They are allowed to reason against my emotional musical interpretations as long as they are doing it in a respectful non-scorning manner. I have not had any scorn towards anyone here. Therefore, others should return the favor. I am also allowed to go against their values as long as I also don't have scorn. I should not have scorn as long as they have no scorn towards me. But I am allowed to go against their values nonetheless.

Now as far is simple repetitious melodies go which are some of the things you hear in my compositions, I do realize that there needs to be more to this song and that it did repeat too much. But I intentionally did this because I did not have a fully perfected song in my head just yet. I only had the tune in my mind which is why I have chosen to repeat it.

But as far as simple melodies go, they can convey strong emotion. For example, with Zelda's Lullaby or any other brief melodic tune that is played on the Ocarina in Zelda, these melodies do convey strong and memorable emotions. My song also conveys a certain strong emotion as well which are the emotions I have described in my videos. You might not feel that from them. But the technical aspects of my songs are flawed and this is the reason why I am really thinking that its emotion is not getting across to you or anyone else. If the technical flaws were corrected, then surely there would be others who would feel similar to this song like me and can relate to this song like me. These are the types of people I wish to seek out since I do not wish to be all alone in this world with my own musical perceptions that no one else has who can't relate to them in my compositions.

Finally, if you feel a certain way about a song you made (such as that it conveys a great and powerful heroic feel), then that would mean that this song really does convey that emotion. What we mean here when we say that a song conveys a certain emotion, this would mean that this song evokes a certain emotional response. Therefore, since this song really has evoked a certain emotion within you, then this means that this song conveys that said emotion. You should not be the only one with this musical interpretation. There are bound to be others out in the world who also share similar perceptions regarding your song. Therefore, even if you were to blow brief random notes into a kazoo every few moments and felt that this "melody" conveys a certain profound emotion and that this emotion is greater than even the greatest compositions in the world, then that song really would be that great in terms of its emotion and there are bound to be others who also share a similar perception. But in order for your perception to truly get across, you just have to choose the right scenes/characters to express the emotion you felt from that song and explain how you feel about that song. Just like how videogame and anime composers get the intended feel of their songs by choosing the right characters, scenes, and environments. That would then allow those people to see that song from your perspective and feel from it the way you do (for at least some people, anyway). This even applies to remixes in that if you feel a certain way about a remix, then it conveys that said emotion.

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

are you ok?

[Tricky-Loops]

are you ok?

[off to wash the dishes]

[Nightpolymath]

You had me at Pat Benatar.

But usually I don't really "feel" for my compositions and emotions. Usually I'd start working in the morning and by noon my mind would be thinking about the steak or meatloaf that I'm going to have for dinner. This would then invoke a strong emotional response in me, and my music would suffer as a result. (Not because of the meatloaf, but because of the strong emotional response.)

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

sometimes people can think their own music is not that good, and get a lot of sales anyway. other times, an artist could think their own music is really good, and get booed off the stage. so maybe it's not so cut and dried.

[Hink]

hmmm, emotions are a huge part of my music but with the exception of my explaining little things (like squeals on my guitar often mean I am vary happy and in my groove) I dont try to evoke an emotion nor am I trying to make anyone feel what I feel. I'm playing it, listeners are not so it really cant be the same. I'm interested to hear what others take from my music, how the interpret it and such because it's interesting how we are all different. Not too mention things like liking a song because it's a song you liked in the past and it brings on emotions the musician/composer/artist/songwriter/producer never could have expected.

Now when it comes to not liking our own tunes that's a different story. I wonder if the stones cringe when they hear songs from their first album. When people like my music I think I probably ask my self why first But that doesn't stop me and the truth is it takes a lot of time for me to be 100% happy with my music. I think part of that for me is because I spend so much time on one song and I dont finish a song until I'm done playing it. I often play a song many, many times recording the guitar parts over and over just because I am enjoying playing it.

Then I get to the mixing phase and I play it over and over even more. When I'm done I'm sick of hearing it. If I post I'll start to like once I realize no one is noticing the things that bother me. If many people start noticing points that I didn't like myself I learn, if they dont I still learn.

When I am done with a song it has served it's main purpose for me, if I share it and others like it that's all the better. But their interpretation is their interpretation

[debra1rlo]

I'm about making people feel the brown note with my compositions.

[vurt]

emotions are for other people.

[Nightpolymath]

I'm about making people feel the brown note with my compositions.

Ah yes, the brown note. I think the band Montezuma's Revenge was formed primarily to generate some brown notes.

[MattMVS7]

Now first off, I apologize if I am talking too much/asking too many questions. It's just that this discussion is getting interesting since I am going to learn something from others who might reply back to me. These learned things are vital to me and my composing dream. They would be things I would not find on youtube or from studying up on music theory. Therefore, I wish to know the answer to this question I am now going to ask which is that I derive emotion from melodies that have random notes with no rhythm or harmony and I also derive emotion from random songs that have been pasted together that also don't have any rhythm and harmony.

Now I realize that what we feel does not define reality. In other words, just because I feel that those "songs" convey a certain emotion, this does not mean that they convey those said feelings at all. As a matter of fact, since rhythm and harmony are intrinsic to music and are the very definition of music, then this would mean that those "songs" should have no feel to them at all and that they should just be random notes and such. And yet, I feel something from them anyway even knowing the fact that they don't convey those feelings at all. Therefore, what might be going on here is that there are two versions of these songs that exist. One version is in reality which holds no feelings at all while the other version exists in my mind. This other version that exists in my mind might have actual rhythm and harmony and just might convey those said feelings. But I am unable to separate those two versions and view them independently. In other words, if I were to compose something that has technical flaws, then that song would actually be all good to go for me since it would be flawless just like the actual version of the song I hear in my mind when this is simply not the case at all.

But in the event that there is no actual song in my mind and that I am just simply deriving irrational feelings from these songs, then wouldn't these feelings at least be an important clue to how my music should be and that I just need to do something different/add more things to my songs and/or the songs of other artists to convey those said feelings? Also, it's not just the melodies alone and them going together in terms of rhythm and harmony. It is also about how instruments sound together.

But if I am creating a different version of a heard song in my mind and that this version does hold true and conveys the feelings I am ascribing to them while the version in reality does not convey any feelings at all since that version would be something flawed and imperfected, then what about my emotional interpretations from songs that are perfected by other artists? For example, there is this one song played in reverse which conveys an intense dramatic horrific feel to me. However, other people do not feel that way about it at all. To me, this song conveys a feeling of intense horror that is even greater than the best horror songs out there. This reversed song is "Love is a Battlefield" by Pat Benetar. It conveys a feeling of either being dragged to hell or a horrific demonic possession in which a demon-possessed person is convulsing. This feeling is not just conveyed in the singer's tone of voice as well as the other instruments. It is also strongly conveyed in the reversed melody as well. This intense horrific feel is conveyed in this video when Raven drags Dr. Light.

So if my emotional musical interpretation of that song is also false, then does this also mean that I am hearing a different version of this reversed song in my mind as well? Perhaps this version in my mind is in a minor scale instead of a major scale. Perhaps it is in some other scale and/or has a different rhythm/harmony. Therefore, listen to this reversed song in this video I made of it that conveys its horrific feel to me. Then tell me what I need to do with that song in order to bring out that feeling and what music programs/other things I will need to do to this song in order to bring out that feel. Or maybe you or someone else can do something with this reversed song to bring out this feeling.

As an important note before I present this video, I wish to keep everything basically the same about this song in terms of its melody, notes, and rests. So maybe it just needs to be in a different scale. I am not sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7iwwsRAbTE

And here is the story version of this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqwnDtWFlIo

[highkoo]

Ooookay.
Now I am starting to understand what you are talking about.
No need to apologize for long posts or asking questions.

I perceive your thoughts to be about one of the core things behind all creative output; translation/interpretation. It is about how accurately the creator is able to translate/relate their output, and how much they care to cater to the interpretations they perceive the consumer will have of their translation... and, whether or not the creator even cares to pay any attention to either of those things at all.

Imo, but arguably, a creator first has to be confident, or at least comfortable with their own internal translation. They need to be able to create what they want to create, regardless of what it is or why they want it. That translation needs to be 'accurate' according to their own internal meters. But after that, again imo, what they choose to do with that 'skill' can and does vary widely.

One of the biggest things I 'learned' about art is how wide the spectrum of motivations behind creating it and consuming it actually is. The various outputs and the interpretations of it can be similar and overlap, but the actual 'causes' of it can be almost opposite.

The only thing I can really say specifically to your questions is that your feelings are valid. Nothing else really matters, or is more 'real' than that. If a song makes you feel a certain way, then it does. It doesnt matter why really. Imo, we do define reality, in that way, at least for ourselves, but very likely we are not alone...

[highkoo]

dp!

[2ZrgE]

Most of my songs tend to make me feel bad because they are rather poor attemps compared to stuff I know and listen to.

I should really go for another hobby.

[whyterabbyt]

As an important note before I present this video

Isnt this the third or 4th thread you've presented this video in?

tell me what I need to do with that song in order to bring out that feeling and what music programs/other things I will need to do to this song in order to bring out that feel. Or maybe you or someone else can do something with this reversed song to bring out this feeling.

As an important note before I present this video, I wish to keep everything basically the same about this song in terms of its melody, notes, and rests. So maybe it just needs to be in a different scale. I am not sure

Can anyone tell me how this actually differentiates itself from

"I found some random track, and played it backwards. I discovered hidden meanings in the reversed version that noone else seems to recognise. Ive concluded that if I do some 'music stuff' to the reversed version, other people will recognise the hidden meaning that Ive found. I dont understand music, or how to do music stuff, and all Im basically doing is plagiarising something completely, but Ive decided that I have untapped talent at music, so this idea must be good. please do the work for me."

(apart from being much shorter and not relying on nested layers of tautology)

[ThoughtExperiment]

As an important note before I present this video

Isnt this the third or 4th thread you've presented this video in?

tell me what I need to do with that song in order to bring out that feeling and what music programs/other things I will need to do to this song in order to bring out that feel. Or maybe you or someone else can do something with this reversed song to bring out this feeling.

As an important note before I present this video, I wish to keep everything basically the same about this song in terms of its melody, notes, and rests. So maybe it just needs to be in a different scale. I am not sure

Can anyone tell me how this actually differentiates itself from

"I found some random track, and played it backwards. I discovered hidden meanings in the reversed version that noone else seems to recognise. Ive concluded that if I do some 'music stuff' to the reversed version, other people will recognise the hidden meaning that Ive found. I dont understand music, or how to do music stuff, and all Im basically doing is plagiarising something completely, but Ive decided that I have untapped talent at music, so this idea must be good. please do the work for me."

(apart from being much shorter and not relying on nested layers of tautology)

An even shorter version might read:
"I am a barmpot - please ignore me"