How about yearly subscription pricing for MTotalBundle?
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 10 Aug, 2014
Whilst I don't have an issue with it as long as you keep the option to purchase plugins separately, this is something that is worrying me. Back when Adobe announced that Photoshop would only be available to use via a monthly payment, I figured it wouldn't be long before music production software companies/designers started to look at this model. Call me old skool or a materialistic prick, but I like to own stuff. In my opinion, this kind of business model is just a ploy to get customers to pay far more over time. Whilst I love Melda plugins, I do use other software designers products too, so if all of these worked on a subscription business model, I just wouldn't be able to afford it by far. Also I think it would ultimately lead to a huge increase in piracy. I actually think I'd prefer it if you dropped the free for life updates before you adopted a subscription payment option. Free updates are so good, but if a small charge to update between full versions of products was necessary, I'd rather that than a monthly payment. For something like Netflix or Lovefilm, it works. You're only paying out for that single service. If you had to pay out for 20+ movie/TV rental services like you would for music software, it simply wouldn't work.
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- KVRAF
- 5948 posts since 8 Jul, 2009
I own Adobe products (Photoshop licensed user since v 1.0!, plus others). when Creative Cloud came out I was very confused about it. for those that don't know Adobe makes what are considered the top tier graphics design applications and more recently video and audio (through acquisitions). a few years ago they also offered a subscription based service with monthly and annual fees. so you can either spend the many $1000's to buy the licences or spend around $70/mo for the complete creative cloud subscription. those are the end user prices in canada. for the $70 you get everything.
Now I never needed everything. Really only Photoshop and Indesign and occasionally Dreamweaver. I only own 2 or 3 of their products. But I decided to try Creative Cloud. I have to say it was nice to have everything but in the end I only used the few apps I needed and most of everything was not used.
But here I am paying $70/mo for a bunch of stuff I don't use. The benefit to me was that I get the most recent versions. I would have to spend almost $1000 to upgrade my two licences.
In the end, I decided it wasn't worth it. it wasn't worth spending almost $1000/yr to have everything Adobe but to only really use a couple apps. the problem is that Adobe only has 3 kinds of licences: photoshop only $10/mo, any one app $20/mo, everything $50/mo. this doesn't include tax or exchange (hence how that $50US gets to $70 canadian). so it just doesn't make sense to spend $40/mo on 2 apps when I can spend $50 and get everything.
With that, I moved away from adobe. you might say well they didn't do away with the individual licences so really nothing has changed for me. i can still upgrade my old licences the way I always used to.
Except now with creative cloud, my whole use of Adobe products has had to be scrutinized in order to determine the best use of my money. in the past a new version would come out and I would just need to decided, do I get it or wait for the next one. very simple decision process and something I was used to. but now its all been convoluted with creative could and this attempt at strategic price points corralling us into getting the super deluxe most expensive package. This resulted in my re-assessming my needs to Adobe and now I have found much cheaper competing products and I am no longer an Adobe customer.
Tread lightly Melda.
And in the world of music production there are a lot more amateur players mingled in with the pros. in the design world, sure there are amateurs but they are very few and far between. a working graphics designer is going to pay the $70/mo and it becomes part of their business expenses and is usually easily justified. but for an amateur a subscription is going to be pointless and risk is users moving away from Melda to competing products or doing without.
The only way I can see this working is to maintain the existing single licence structure and also providing a subscription licence for bundles aimed at pros. I see two main benefits to pros: 1) they can cost-manage their capital costs better (eg. they pay a smaller subscription fee in order to get everything now, and pay for it "over time") and 2) they are insured of updates. for many of us, when we buy a plug in we expect that the version we buy is the version we will end up with. we like the 1 year or whatever of updates but after that, if there is a cost to upgrade, we typically assess if its worth the money and decide. often its not and we just stick with the version we have until we really want/need the new version. so a regular subscription for the purpose of updates is not going to have a lot of value unless the company is known to released regular and interesting updates (eg. maintenance updates are usually not worth it).
I'd say consider adding bundle subscriptions but do not think its a cash cow such that you can stop offering individual licences. keep what you have now and add bundle subscriptions only aimed at pros who want all the plug ins now without having to make such a capital purchase and who don't want to be bothered trying to keep everything up to date.
Now I never needed everything. Really only Photoshop and Indesign and occasionally Dreamweaver. I only own 2 or 3 of their products. But I decided to try Creative Cloud. I have to say it was nice to have everything but in the end I only used the few apps I needed and most of everything was not used.
But here I am paying $70/mo for a bunch of stuff I don't use. The benefit to me was that I get the most recent versions. I would have to spend almost $1000 to upgrade my two licences.
In the end, I decided it wasn't worth it. it wasn't worth spending almost $1000/yr to have everything Adobe but to only really use a couple apps. the problem is that Adobe only has 3 kinds of licences: photoshop only $10/mo, any one app $20/mo, everything $50/mo. this doesn't include tax or exchange (hence how that $50US gets to $70 canadian). so it just doesn't make sense to spend $40/mo on 2 apps when I can spend $50 and get everything.
With that, I moved away from adobe. you might say well they didn't do away with the individual licences so really nothing has changed for me. i can still upgrade my old licences the way I always used to.
Except now with creative cloud, my whole use of Adobe products has had to be scrutinized in order to determine the best use of my money. in the past a new version would come out and I would just need to decided, do I get it or wait for the next one. very simple decision process and something I was used to. but now its all been convoluted with creative could and this attempt at strategic price points corralling us into getting the super deluxe most expensive package. This resulted in my re-assessming my needs to Adobe and now I have found much cheaper competing products and I am no longer an Adobe customer.
Tread lightly Melda.
And in the world of music production there are a lot more amateur players mingled in with the pros. in the design world, sure there are amateurs but they are very few and far between. a working graphics designer is going to pay the $70/mo and it becomes part of their business expenses and is usually easily justified. but for an amateur a subscription is going to be pointless and risk is users moving away from Melda to competing products or doing without.
The only way I can see this working is to maintain the existing single licence structure and also providing a subscription licence for bundles aimed at pros. I see two main benefits to pros: 1) they can cost-manage their capital costs better (eg. they pay a smaller subscription fee in order to get everything now, and pay for it "over time") and 2) they are insured of updates. for many of us, when we buy a plug in we expect that the version we buy is the version we will end up with. we like the 1 year or whatever of updates but after that, if there is a cost to upgrade, we typically assess if its worth the money and decide. often its not and we just stick with the version we have until we really want/need the new version. so a regular subscription for the purpose of updates is not going to have a lot of value unless the company is known to released regular and interesting updates (eg. maintenance updates are usually not worth it).
I'd say consider adding bundle subscriptions but do not think its a cash cow such that you can stop offering individual licences. keep what you have now and add bundle subscriptions only aimed at pros who want all the plug ins now without having to make such a capital purchase and who don't want to be bothered trying to keep everything up to date.
#NONFR Check out my music at Bandcamp 
Free Streaming!
Free music with your support on Patreon | Youtube: Music of Plexus Videos (music videos) | Youtube: Plexus Productions (audio related) Stop whining. Make music.
Free Streaming! Free music with your support on Patreon | Youtube: Music of Plexus Videos (music videos) | Youtube: Plexus Productions (audio related) Stop whining. Make music.
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- KVRAF
- 2626 posts since 8 Sep, 2009
Neither are 99.9% of the companies that offer payment plans. They outsource the deal to specialised companies (of course their service and profit add to the calculated rate/price).rrichard63 wrote:Voitech is a musician and software developer, not a banker or financial analyst.
A close variant is called "factoring". It means that the seller actually sells his claims - often right after the contract between the client and the vendor has been established, read: the invoice has been sent.
Last edited by elassi on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122 - KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Haha, seems I have opened a pandora's box 
. So far most people seem against, we'll see in a few hours 
... If we don't do this, less work for me, which is good .
Anyway thank you all for the opinions folks!
. So far most people seem against, we'll see in a few hours ... If we don't do this, less work for me, which is good .Anyway thank you all for the opinions folks!
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- KVRist
- 50 posts since 22 Jul, 2011 from Minneapolis, Minnesota
Ha..... starting any thread is opening Panora's Box..... I love your plugins (I am slowly amassing quite a Melda collection), and I would hate to have to stop supporting your awesome business model...But I won't do subscriptions. Heck, I don't even do Netflix, cable TV, or get a newspaper delivered (who gets newspapers delivered anymore?!?). I think my non-smart phone contract may be my only "subscription" right now, and I got one with no cancellation fee......MeldaProduction wrote:Haha, seems I have opened a pandora's box
Anyway thank you all for the opinions folks!
Great idea though to ask the questions!!
Music folds and unfolds the universe.
http://soundyaudio.com/
http://soundyaudio.com/
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- KVRian
- 1074 posts since 26 Nov, 2007
i don't do subscription pricings... the only reason i use melda is they are decent plugs and offer FREE lifetime updates. if THAT changes... so will i. jus' sayin'
jay
jay
"There is no strength in numbers... have no such misconception... but when you need me be assured I won't be far away."
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- KVRer
- 19 posts since 6 Oct, 2011 from Denmark
The ultimate best option is to wait for Melda to make a 50% off all bundles offer. And then to buy MTotalbundle. Free updates for life and free newly invented plugins! 
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- KVRAF
- 2626 posts since 8 Sep, 2009
Well, I know both cases where the Cloud-thingy does not make sense as well as being perfect for certain circumstances.plexuss wrote:I own Adobe products ...
But (imho) the HUGE difference to a possible Melda-subscription is that Adobe products are standard in the industry. If you're doing business then you can't deny their products.
But that's not valid for Melda plugins. There are tons of competitors and no one really needs this or another product to get a job done.
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
room732: Hehe yeah I wish it was that simple .
elassi: Of course there are competitions, but many of our products don't actually have any competition. Anyway this whole thing wasn't really about comparing our plugins to competition (no idea how you get to it). I just wanted to ask if you, customers, would find this useful. Most of people agree that "not really" though.
.elassi: Of course there are competitions, but many of our products don't actually have any competition. Anyway this whole thing wasn't really about comparing our plugins to competition (no idea how you get to it). I just wanted to ask if you, customers, would find this useful. Most of people agree that "not really" though
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- KVRer
- 4 posts since 7 Jul, 2013
I don't understand why anyone pays as they go. I completely ignore this option with Adobe, Unity 3D, etc.
Unless you're being hired by an employer who has agreed to pay for your license while you work with them, I see no point. Even then, every employer I've had expected me to own my own licenses. Who adds the cost of software licenses to their bids!?! What client would ever pay that?
My final point - Project duration
Every project I've taken seriously has taken longer than expected and requires me to return to the original files months after I thought it was completed. In that case, I still need the licenses to the software. Long story short, if I'm committing to using software, I want a lifetime guarantee that I'll be able to open the work I've done, no matter how old it is!
Monthly subscriptions are silly.
Unless you're being hired by an employer who has agreed to pay for your license while you work with them, I see no point. Even then, every employer I've had expected me to own my own licenses. Who adds the cost of software licenses to their bids!?! What client would ever pay that?
My final point - Project duration
Every project I've taken seriously has taken longer than expected and requires me to return to the original files months after I thought it was completed. In that case, I still need the licenses to the software. Long story short, if I'm committing to using software, I want a lifetime guarantee that I'll be able to open the work I've done, no matter how old it is!
Monthly subscriptions are silly.
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- KVRAF
- 2626 posts since 8 Sep, 2009
You're always too emotional when it comes to those things...MeldaProduction wrote:Anyway this whole thing wasn't really about comparing our plugins to competition (no idea how you get to it).
The 'idea' (better: reason) for the post was to illustrate a situation when one NEEDS to pay lots of cash for software and is thankful for alternative payment models.
In this (your) case you can't deny that there's no industry-based need to buy Compressor A rather than Compressor B (same applies to FXn A and FXn B) even if one has features that are unique.
So calm down and rather appreciate the valuable hints you receive from the community. There are many in this thread.
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- KVRian
- 903 posts since 14 May, 2003
A rent-to-buy option would be interesting.
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Ok, but I don't understand then. How is existance of competition related to a getting things cheaper via subscription model? In fact, to me that it seems more logical in this case. If you are using Photoshop, then you are probably going to use Photoshop forever (for no reason to me actually , because Photoshop actually isn't anything so awesome , seems that quite typical about "industry standards"), so using subscription licences doesn't make sense.
, because Photoshop actually isn't anything so awesome , seems that quite typical about "industry standards"), so using subscription licences doesn't make sense.-
- KVRian
- 1218 posts since 9 Feb, 2007 from San Ramon, California
The only place I use payed license lease or maintenance agreements is for my professional scientific and engineering software (Matlab, LightTools, Lumerical FDTD, Tecplot, Intel Parallel Studio, etc.) where the license fees are payed for and maintained by my employer.
I bought licenses for the Creative bundle and the upgrade to the free stuff from Melda. I would expect free minor updates and improvements, but as with all my other music software if there is a major update to the software that adds new features and/or compatibility with Windows 10+N where N is some number then I would pay an upgrade fee.
I pay upgrade fees for Steinberg, Ableton, and NI products, but I usually wait for a little while for things to stabilize before upgrading. That is similar to the annual maintenance thing but the upgrade fee always buys me a tangible upgrade to the product (though some, including me, might argue that the "upgrade" to Cubase 8 Pro for Windows was a downgrade in the UI functionality and we are not pleased).
I bought licenses for the Creative bundle and the upgrade to the free stuff from Melda. I would expect free minor updates and improvements, but as with all my other music software if there is a major update to the software that adds new features and/or compatibility with Windows 10+N where N is some number then I would pay an upgrade fee.
I pay upgrade fees for Steinberg, Ableton, and NI products, but I usually wait for a little while for things to stabilize before upgrading. That is similar to the annual maintenance thing but the upgrade fee always buys me a tangible upgrade to the product (though some, including me, might argue that the "upgrade" to Cubase 8 Pro for Windows was a downgrade in the UI functionality and we are not pleased).
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- KVRAF
- 2626 posts since 8 Sep, 2009
A real life example: I was offered a job where I needed InDesign from Adobe. Usually I wouldn't have accepted it because buying InDesign meant spending 1000 Euro (not Dollar!) just for this order. I didn't do print at this time and was not sure if the investment would pay out especially because the price almost ate up my profit for the specific job.MeldaProduction wrote:Ok, but I don't understand then. How is existance of competition related to a getting things cheaper via subscription model? In fact, to me that it seems more logical in this case. If you are using Photoshop, then you are probably going to use Photoshop forever (for no reason to me actually
Out of the blue Adobe came out with the subscription model.
No question what I did at this time...
Meanwhile I'm still in the 'profit zone' and acquired further print jobs (something I wasn't sure about at the beginning). As I said: a question of the circumstances. To me this subscription was a god-send.
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Need to edit and add the point: If I'd do a mix or mastering I'm abolutely not bound to a specific plugin company. But with Adobe it's just plain fact.
