KVR Audio

Touch The Universe · Post by **Touch The Universe** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:04 pm

Hey, I was researching this topic and find an old kvr thread (2009) about synthesizing kick drums from scratch using only vsti synths and decided to simply create another thread instead of bumping the old one. A lot of time and good synths have been created since then so I wanted to revisit the issue with more updated vsti. I have a ton of samples for electronic kicks and they are mostly really good, but I find there is usually something I would like to change with them so I got into patching them up myself to get some nice results. Usually however this requires a tedious (but worth it) task of stacking them and creating individual volume automations per section for more full precise control to get the results I'm after and have it fit perfectly in the mix. This is really handy when the envelopes aren't getting the job done despite best efforts, you can simply create your own mseg's.

Kick Drum Automation.jpg

Synths I've personally found the best so far have been massive and dune 1, although, sylenth, spire, and even the free T-Force Alpha Plus brings really good results (when streamed and sampled). Of course there are also the ones specifically dedicated to kicks and the ones I've demo'd that sound best to me are bazzism and eks pro. I haven't spent much time on Big Kick or the Nicky romero plug as of yet.

And finally, sense often times further processing is required to really bring the kick to life (especially when synthesizing from scratch), I would very much like to hear how others go about sculpting the kick for extra attack and bringing it out in the mix. Saturation/Eq/Compression and maybe a transient plug seems to be the way I've read and experimented so far. Spl Transient seems to be the ones I've gotten good results as well as mcompressor (which can also act to boost transients via custom curve). As for the others I don't really have any suggestions and would love to hear some. I would say fabfilter to but I've also heard that a good linear phase eq would also help with building the body of the kick, to which I'm clueless as yet.

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:26 pm

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:26 pm

Guess depends on genre and what one aims at, for some vintage drum machines drenched in tape hiss and over distorted does the job, for others it's layering tons of stuff until it sounds like Axwell made it and so on, so plugins and techniques quite vary, one mans perfect kick is another ones garbage, so it's worth pointing out preference immediately.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:27 pm

2015 isn't over yet. I'm sure some more will come

liv · Post by **liv** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:35 pm

The oscillators of Bazille probably have some two or three gazillion shapes on offer and when mixing pm and pd, vast amounts of kick sounds are possible.
Might sound overkill to get Bazille but, if you like it (layout, gui etc.), it will definitely deliver.

Touch The Universe · Post by **Touch The Universe** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:37 pm

Passing Bye wrote:Guess depends on genre and what one aims at, for some vintage drum machines drenched in tape hiss and over distorted does the job, for others it's layering tons of stuff until it sounds like Axwell made it and so on, so plugins and techniques quite vary, one mans perfect kick is another ones garbage, so it's worth pointing out preference immediately.

Good point, I updated the thread title

But even saying electronic kick drum, there is a lot of wiggle room still since the genres each call for a specific type of kick that can be easily recognized. 909's for goa trance, to which dune 1 and the older hyrda excel quite well at, while a fast kick (preferably 100-150ms) with a bright attack for psy trance, and the fuller body ones for trance and progressive styles, etc. Anyone can share any genre of electronic types and would only really need to clarify if they decide to give some processing tips imo, but anything goes really and would be appreciated. Cheers

Touch The Universe · Post by **Touch The Universe** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:40 pm

Lotuzia wrote:2015 isn't over yet. I'm sure some more will come

Indeed, but it was more alluding to the earlier 2009 thread saying this is more like the 2015 version. I removed it from the title to avoid confusion since I'm in no way referring to only the most recent synths. Cheers

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Mon May 25, 2015 3:57 pm

Tjgoa wrote:
Passing Bye wrote:Guess depends on genre and what one aims at, for some vintage drum machines drenched in tape hiss and over distorted does the job, for others it's layering tons of stuff until it sounds like Axwell made it and so on, so plugins and techniques quite vary, one mans perfect kick is another ones garbage, so it's worth pointing out preference immediately.
Good point, I update the thread title But even saying electronic kick drum, there is a lot of wiggle room still since the genres each call for a specific type of kick that can be easily recognized. 909's for goa trance, to which dune 1 and the older hyrda excel quite well at, while a fast kick (preferably 100-150ms) with a bright attack for psy trance, and the fuller body ones for trance and progressive styles, etc. Anyone can share any genre of electronic types and would only really need to clarify if they decide to give some processing tips imo, but anything goes really and would be appreciated. Cheers

Nothing wrong with thread tittle, but I sense it's worth pointing out personal preference in some cases, so it's easier to grasp finesses, instead of just writing tip like use whatever tool and insert 10+ instances of Logic's Clip Distortion and shape the madness or something

kokotte · Post by **kokotte** » Mon May 25, 2015 4:39 pm

A synth with good pitch env and the most important, a phase slider:)
personally, i like Big Kick,for a kick, i can utilize 3 or 4 vst for different part of the spectrum(and fx too,without samples, try reverb,eq, amp sim....)but the phase betweem them is the most importani like too speek about making kick, it s my hobbie!

pheeleep · Post by **pheeleep** » Mon May 25, 2015 4:41 pm

Rob Papen Punch BD

http://www.robpapen.com/Punch-BD.html

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:01 pm

there have been several "kick synths" over the last few years. the best of what i have to offer you is in the drumsynth plugin "bong", which has an assortment of relatively flexible algorithms for emulating classics and similar.

Touch The Universe · Post by **Touch The Universe** » Mon May 25, 2015 11:31 pm

kokotte wrote:A synth with good pitch env and the most important, a phase slider:)
personally, i like Big Kick,for a kick, i can utilize 3 or 4 vst for different part of the spectrum(and fx too,without samples, try reverb,eq, amp sim....)but the phase betweem them is the most importani like too speek about making kick, it s my hobbie!

I haven't gone deeply into that synth because of the gui, it simply won't fit on my low resolution screen. My computer can go 1900 1200, but I don't like it like that and usually settle for around 1280. Whenever I get into stacking while synthesizing, I worry about this issue a lot, but usually just end up with going what sounds good. For the most part, to me, any phase issues are too subtle for my ear to hear, so I just consider it a non-issue. I usually never stack identical synths sharing most of the same frequency and always eq problem areas or to make things cleaner, so I hope that helps. I don't know how to tell if it's a problem and what to do to fix it. I know that eq's create phasing you boost or cut, but I haven't incorporated a strategy into my workflow as yet to prevent such things.

kokotte · Post by **kokotte** » Tue May 26, 2015 6:14 am

if you have harmor, make your kick with it, put a sine,pitch env on, and go ! ( you can scult the attack with prism and or some unisson too),it work perfect

Monkberry · Post by **Monkberry** » Tue May 26, 2015 5:51 pm

Finally picked up Metrum after demoing it when it first came out. It definitely takes care of 808''s & 909's and then some.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue May 26, 2015 6:08 pm

Monkberry wrote:Finally picked up Metrum after demoing it when it first came out. It definitely takes care of 808''s & 909's and then some.

A $162 Kick Drum Synth ?

How about EKS Pro for only $39 ?

http://www.synapse-audio.com/ekspro.html

Best VSTI's for Synthesizing Electronic Kick Drums